Online ūüĆé With Amr The Internet Guy!

Episode 9, Make your website content “KING” & Improve your SEO With Michelle Bourbonni√®re

E9: Michelle Bourbonnière Make your website content KING & Improve SEO

Online! Episode 9:

Make your website content “KING” & Improve your SEO With Michelle Bourbonni√®re

 

My guest is the experienced editor, SEO Expert, Google whisperer & Ph.D. holder: Michelle Bourbonnière.
This is seriously a “must-see/ must listen to” episode for everyone who has a website or a business!
We share a lot of useful stuff and many ideas that you can implement right away to improve your site’s content and SEO ranking.

Enjoy!

‚Ė¨ Contents¬† ‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨

00:17 Start: Make your content KING
04:30 What is Editing?
06:55 The difference between an editor and a copywriter.
09:50 The content creation process and should you write a different copy for mobile and desktop?
15:05 SEO misconceptions: on-page vs off-page SEO
19:30 What does Google look for?
21:40 The importance of Keyword Research.
25:00 Ranking for unrelated keywords?
34:00 How to differentiate your page – outside the box ideas.
37:00 Off-Page SEO guide (ads, reviews, customer service, and Social media)
44:00 How has selling changed: The importance of Transparency 1:03:00 Refreshing your old content.
1:07:20 Off-page advice: questions and answers are a great resource to use.
1:10:30 Segmenting and writing for different audiences.
1:13:30 Showing – and benefitting from – your expertise

‚Ė¨ End of Contents ‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨‚Ė¨

 

– Need help with your website? Book a free consultation here: https://meetings.hubspot.com/amr6

–¬†Here’s a link to The book Michelle mentioned (They Ask You Answer)¬†https://marcussheridan.com/they-ask-you-Answer

How to get in touch with Michelle:

Website: https://www.editedbymichelle.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/editedbymichelle
LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-bourbonniere

This Podcast is available at your favorite Podcast/Streaming network including Spotify, Google Podcasts and iTunes.

Online! Episode 9 Video:

Episode 9 Transcription:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS 
people, website, cloudflare, google, audience, business, writing, write, editor, seo, content, reviews, 
question, understand, business owners, blog post, rank, types, expert, keywords 
SPEAKERS 
announcer, Michelle Bourbonnière, Amr The Internet Guy 
 
announcer   
online with amor, the internet guy streaming today on your favorite podcast platforms. This podcast 
focuses on entrepreneurs and business owners helping them become more successful and conducting 
their business on the web without being stuck with technology. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Hey¬†guys,¬†how’s¬†it¬†going?¬†So¬†my¬†guest¬†today¬†is¬†Michelle¬†bourbon¬†year¬†from¬†Alberta,¬†Canada,¬†we¬†are¬†
going to be discussing content. You know, when they say content is king, this episode is actually telling 
you¬†what¬†to¬†do¬†in¬†order¬†to¬†make¬†your¬†content.¬†King.¬†Without¬†further¬†ado,¬†let’s¬†meet¬†Michelle.¬†Hi,¬†
Michelle.¬†Hello.¬†How’s¬†it¬†going?¬†Ah,¬†very¬†good.¬†So,¬†guys,¬†I¬†have¬†Michelle¬†bourbon¬†area.¬†That’s¬†a¬†
Capricorn¬†aim¬†here.¬†She’s¬†not¬†from¬†Quebec,¬†but¬†I¬†understand¬†she¬†married¬†into¬†one.¬†Yeah.¬†So¬†Michelle,¬†
just¬†tell¬†people¬†where¬†you¬†are¬†and¬†what¬†you¬†do,¬†please.¬†So¬†I’m¬†based¬†out¬†of¬†Edmonton.¬†And¬†yes,¬†my¬†
husband¬†is¬†Francophone.¬†He’s¬†from¬†Quebec.¬†Um,¬†and,¬†yeah,¬†I¬†live¬†in¬†Edmonton.¬†And¬†I’m¬†an¬†SEO¬†
editor. So for some time, I was thinking about, you know, content and text and SEO and stuff like that. 
And¬†I¬†think¬†we’ve¬†met¬†through¬†Josh¬†hole¬†on¬†one¬†of¬†these.¬†I¬†think¬†we’ve¬†met¬†on¬†the¬†Facebook¬†group¬†first.¬†
Yeah. And then we realized we were both on Marie Forleo scores and things like that, like I, I see you 
now.¬†It’s¬†funny,¬†because¬†like,¬†we¬†meet¬†somewhere,¬†and¬†then¬†we¬†realized¬†that¬†we’re¬†everywhere,¬†but¬†
we’re¬†just¬†not¬†aware.¬†And¬†you’re¬†not¬†even¬†that¬†far.¬†Because¬†you’re¬†in¬†Canada¬†do¬†I¬†don’t¬†bc¬†you’re¬†in¬†
Alberta?¬†Yeah.¬†Like¬†next¬†door?¬†Yeah.¬†So¬†what’s,¬†what’s¬†the¬†difference¬†between¬†an¬†editor¬†and¬†
copywriter?¬†Okay,¬†so¬†maybe¬†I¬†can¬†go¬†back¬†and¬†tell¬†you¬†a¬†little¬†bit¬†about¬†like¬†how¬†I¬†got¬†here?¬†Because¬†it’s¬†
a¬†it’s¬†a¬†kind¬†of¬†a,¬†an¬†interesting,¬†yeah.¬†And¬†you¬†have¬†a¬†PhD¬†as¬†well,¬†which¬†scares¬†me?¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I¬†do.¬†Yeah,¬†it¬†was¬†a¬†long¬†story.¬†But¬†I’ll¬†make¬†it¬†short.¬†So¬†basically,¬†what¬†it¬†is,¬†is¬†that,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†have¬†a¬†PhD¬†
in history. And so as a historian, we learn how to write stories, right. So like, we learn how to find stories 
in the archive, we find stories that have never been told. And then we write these kind of narrative 
histories around them, typically around an argument as well. So when I graduated, I went into editing 
and¬†editing¬†is¬†like¬†not¬†that¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s¬†a¬†fairly¬†common¬†career¬†path¬†to¬†go¬†from¬†like¬†a¬†PhD¬†in¬†the¬†humanities¬†to¬†like¬†an¬†editing¬†degree.¬†So¬†I¬†did¬†some¬†work¬†at¬†University¬†of¬†California,¬†Berkeley,¬†I¬†took¬†their¬†
Certificate¬†course¬†in¬†editing¬†to¬†become¬†a¬†professional¬†editor.¬†But¬†of¬†course,¬†if¬†you’re¬†an¬†editor,¬†you¬†need¬†
to find a text to edit. And so editors can work in all different fields. So I mean, the most traditional editor 
would¬†be¬†somebody¬†working¬†with¬†a¬†publishing¬†house,¬†where¬†somebody¬†written¬†their¬†first¬†book,¬†and¬†it’s¬†
going to get published. And then the publishing house hires an editor to look over it and be that second 
set of eyes to kind of bring make that book into its best self, and to really help the author kind of bring it 
up the next level. And so editors can do everything from like the most tiny technical things like 
proofreading, like I took a very, very long and detailed class in formal grammar. And then also helping 
authors with the more substantive issues of style and explaining themselves really well. And being clear 
and having an argument and only having one argument and all those types of things. So, So 
traditionally, editors worked in publishing houses. But especially with the advent of, you know, 
everybody now as an author, and we can all write on the internet editors are sort of branching out more 
into¬†other¬†fields¬†where¬†writing¬†happens.¬†And¬†so¬†as¬†I¬†graduated¬†from¬†the¬†editing¬†program,¬†I’ve¬†always¬†
dabbled¬†in¬†WordPress,¬†I’ve¬†always¬†dabbled¬†in¬†kind¬†of¬†internet¬†stuff.¬†So¬†it¬†just¬†kind¬†of¬†seemed¬†natural¬†to¬†
me¬†that¬†I¬†would¬†actually¬†move¬†into¬†editing¬†internet¬†text.¬†So¬†I’m¬†a,¬†like¬†a¬†website¬†editor.¬†So¬†basically,¬†
instead of editing novels, or editing, even like academic texts, I 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
just¬†edit¬†websites.¬†It’s¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†more¬†interesting,¬†because¬†websites¬†aren’t¬†all¬†about¬†the¬†same¬†thing.¬†So¬†
you get to see like different industries and different angles of what people want to say to the rest of the 
world. Absolutely. Well, and 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
this is why I love being an editor is that I can work on different projects. I mean, just the range of 
different kinds of websites I get to edit is always fascinating, but also like, people have something to 
say,¬†you¬†know,¬†and¬†yeah,¬†and¬†it’s¬†nice¬†because,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†was¬†in¬†academia¬†and¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†I¬†have¬†a¬†
published¬†article¬†by¬†like,¬†I¬†can’t¬†say¬†that¬†many¬†people¬†have¬†read¬†it.¬†And¬†you¬†know,¬†websites¬†really¬†get¬†
read and they really have such an impact and especially with business websites, like when you start 
getting¬†into¬†knowing¬†just,¬†if¬†you¬†could¬†just¬†use¬†the¬†convincing¬†words¬†how¬†well¬†they¬†ate,¬†so¬†like,¬†it’s¬†just¬†a¬†
It’s¬†very¬†satisfying¬†to¬†be¬†working¬†in¬†a¬†field¬†where¬†you¬†can¬†see¬†the¬†impact¬†of¬†any¬†changes¬†that¬†you’re¬†
making,¬†like¬†almost¬†instantly¬†on¬†people’s¬†bottom¬†lines¬†on¬†on,¬†like¬†SEO,¬†as¬†I’m¬†sure¬†we’ll¬†get¬†into.¬†And¬†so¬†
yeah,¬†it’s¬†a¬†really¬†fun,¬†fun¬†way¬†to¬†add¬†it.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So¬†the¬†editor¬†in¬†general,¬†right,¬†does¬†not¬†change¬†the¬†content.¬†No,¬†like,¬†yeah,¬†as¬†opposed¬†to,¬†if¬†you’re¬†a¬†
copywriter, you probably just come up with your own content, instead of the person or the business 
owner or the website owner, writing it, the copywriter will write it instead. But the answer will make sure 
that¬†this¬†content¬†is¬†the¬†right¬†one¬†for,¬†let’s¬†say,¬†the¬†message¬†that¬†you’re¬†trying¬†to¬†say,¬†the¬†audience¬†that¬†
you’re¬†conveying¬†this¬†message¬†to?¬†And¬†of¬†course,¬†that¬†is¬†technically¬†correct,¬†like¬†grammatically,¬†and¬†you¬†
know,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†there’s¬†many¬†I’m¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†much¬†about¬†it.¬†But¬†like,¬†I’m¬†thinking,¬†there’s¬†
probably so many criterions to check, like, you know, check, check, check, check, make sure everything 
is correct. 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Certainly.¬†So¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†any¬†website,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I’m¬†sure¬†you¬†as¬†you¬†all¬†know,¬†like¬†if¬†there’s¬†like¬†a¬†typo¬†
on¬†your¬†website,¬†or¬†an¬†inconsistency¬†like¬†you¬†saw¬†I¬†have¬†many.¬†That’s¬†why¬†the,¬†the¬†if¬†there’s¬†like¬†an¬†
inconsistency¬†between¬†how¬†you¬†spell¬†a¬†word,¬†I¬†mean,¬†there’s¬†we’re¬†Canadian,¬†or¬†
 
 
American? Yeah, American Canadian. Yeah, yeah. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
And¬†so,¬†um,¬†if¬†a¬†website¬†that¬†is¬†kind¬†of¬†clean¬†from¬†top¬†to¬†bottom,¬†that¬†you’ve¬†made¬†a¬†choice¬†about¬†what¬†
spelling¬†variant¬†you’re¬†choosing,¬†and¬†then¬†like¬†that,¬†just¬†that’s¬†that¬†extra¬†thing¬†that¬†like¬†that¬†attention¬†to¬†
detail¬†can¬†really¬†make¬†a¬†difference.¬†Even¬†if¬†people¬†don’t¬†specifically¬†notice,¬†knowing¬†that¬†your¬†website¬†is¬†
kind of consistent is is part of professional publishing. But just to say the difference between an editor 
and a copywriter, you can kind of think about it as different ways that text ends up on the web. So some 
people hire a copywriter and a traditional copywriter, I mean, think madman like that, you know, in the 
1950s, the, these these people that were just marketing writers, and they were they were just they were 
new 
 
 
world, right? Well, the TV ads we used to watch on the black and white TV. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yes,¬†exactly.¬†So¬†there’s,¬†that¬†is¬†kind¬†of¬†the¬†origins¬†of¬†copywriting,¬†where¬†you¬†would¬†hire¬†a¬†marketing¬†
specialist to really like understand your audience inside and out, to understand what makes them tick 
and¬†what¬†makes¬†them¬†buy.¬†And¬†then¬†they’ll¬†interview¬†your¬†audience,¬†they’ll¬†interview¬†your¬†previous¬†
customers,¬†they’ll¬†figure¬†out¬†your¬†buyer¬†personas,¬†all¬†that¬†kind¬†of¬†stuff.¬†So¬†it’s¬†really¬†like¬†a¬†top¬†to¬†bottom¬†
approach to writing. So the copywriting bit is actually, I mean, not even the bulk of the work, the bulk of 
the work is understanding what would make this group of people buy, and then what words do we use 
in order to help this group of people understand the product and want it really badly. So I have the 
utmost respect for conversion copywriters, and people who sort of do conversion, copywriting as a 
business,¬†because,¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s¬†beautiful¬†when¬†you¬†see,¬†yeah,¬†and¬†so¬†it¬†really¬†is¬†a¬†wonderful¬†skill.¬†
Unfortunately,¬†for¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†people,¬†it’s¬†also¬†quite¬†expensive,¬†because¬†it’s¬†just¬†so¬†much¬†work,¬†right?¬†To¬†be¬†
able to be interviewing all of these, all of the customers, as you can imagine, most small businesses 
can’t¬†afford¬†that.¬†And¬†so¬†that’s¬†where¬†I¬†come¬†in,¬†because¬†I¬†can¬†work¬†with.¬†So¬†basically,¬†the¬†real¬†
difference is how we work. So people, like you might write the first draft of their website, and then come 
to an editor to sort of just like I was saying, with the book, kind of make the website, the best version of 
itself. So to kind of make those strategic changes that like an outside I can kind of see and, and be able 
to say, oh, maybe if we said it this way, it would be more clear. Maybe if we broke this up into bullet 
points, it would be easier to read on on the screen, like on a web. Those are the types of changes that 
an¬†editor¬†can¬†make.¬†And¬†so¬†we¬†don’t¬†tend¬†to¬†change,¬†it’s¬†quite¬†almost¬†a¬†rule¬†of¬†editing¬†is¬†that¬†like,¬†if¬†the¬†
person¬†said¬†it¬†in¬†the¬†text,¬†it¬†kind¬†of¬†needs¬†to¬†process¬†you¬†don’t¬†change¬†the¬†meaning¬†you¬†don’t¬†say,¬†Oh,¬†I¬†
don’t¬†think¬†you¬†should¬†have¬†said¬†that.¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†say¬†my¬†way.¬†But¬†it’s¬†more¬†helping¬†them¬†sort¬†of¬†
massage it into its best self. 
 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
This¬†brings¬†me¬†to¬†a¬†question,¬†which¬†is¬†a¬†little¬†bit¬†technical,¬†but¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†it¬†jumped¬†in¬†my¬†head.¬†Do¬†we¬†
have like, should we have two versions, one for mobile and one for desktop? Because if you put a lot of 
text¬†somewhere,¬†somebody¬†is¬†reading¬†it¬†on¬†a¬†mobile¬†app¬†that¬†wasn’t¬†necessarily¬†like¬†it¬†will¬†be¬†just¬†too¬†
much to scroll and read like, Well, I 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
think¬†that¬†really¬†comes¬†down¬†to¬†how¬†it’s¬†laid¬†out.¬†So¬†you¬†shouldn’t¬†so¬†not¬†to¬†get¬†ahead¬†of¬†ourselves¬†with¬†
SEO,¬†but¬†you¬†really¬†shouldn’t¬†have¬†two¬†versions¬†of¬†your¬†website¬†for¬†one¬†for¬†mobile¬†and¬†one¬†for¬†for¬†
desktop.¬†I¬†think¬†that¬†in¬†the¬†coming¬†year.¬†Google¬†has¬†even¬†said¬†that¬†basically¬†it’s¬†going¬†to¬†ignore¬†your¬†
desktop¬†version¬†if¬†you¬†have¬†two¬†versions¬†because¬†you¬†know,¬†there’s¬†these¬†like¬†those¬†m¬†dot¬†websites.¬†
Yes.¬†Those¬†are¬†going¬†the¬†way¬†the¬†dinosaurs¬†Yeah.¬†So¬†you¬†don’t¬†want¬†to¬†have¬†two¬†different¬†texts,¬†
however,¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†make¬†sure¬†that¬†you’re¬†writing¬†for¬†both¬†at¬†the¬†same¬†time.¬†So¬†like¬†you¬†have¬†to¬†
recognize, depending on your industry, but in many industries 5050, you have 50% of that are reading 
on mobile and 50% of the people that are reading on screens. And so you want to design and write in a 
way¬†that¬†works¬†for¬†both.¬†And¬†honestly,¬†like,¬†it’s¬†not¬†that¬†hard,¬†because¬†you’re¬†basically¬†writing¬†for¬†mobile¬†
in¬†both.¬†Yeah,¬†writing¬†for¬†the¬†web¬†is¬†always¬†this¬†short,¬†punchy,¬†like¬†it’s¬†not¬†long¬†paragraphs,¬†even¬†on¬†a¬†
big¬†screen.¬†So¬†that¬†that’s¬†the¬†problem¬†like¬†that¬†I¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
that I found, most business owners fall into one of two categories. The first one is the person who 
doesn’t¬†know¬†what¬†to¬†write¬†at¬†all.¬†And¬†they¬†have¬†a¬†writer’s¬†block.¬†And¬†when¬†you¬†meet¬†them,¬†and¬†you¬†sit¬†
with¬†them,¬†and¬†you’re¬†chatting,¬†they¬†can¬†tell¬†you¬†wonderful¬†things¬†about¬†their¬†business.¬†But¬†if¬†you¬†ask¬†
them¬†to¬†put¬†it¬†into¬†a¬†piece¬†of¬†paper¬†or¬†Microsoft¬†Word¬†document,¬†they¬†get¬†the¬†writer’s¬†block,¬†and¬†they¬†will¬†
take¬†forever.¬†That’s¬†a¬†problem¬†for¬†me¬†as¬†a¬†web¬†designer,¬†because¬†sometimes¬†I¬†have¬†to¬†fish¬†that¬†content¬†
out¬†of¬†the¬†lions¬†den,¬†you¬†know,¬†or¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†like¬†the¬†expression¬†is¬†totally¬†off.¬†But¬†yes,¬†yes,¬†Lion¬†
and¬†banana,¬†it’s¬†gonna¬†Yeah,¬†it’s¬†hard.¬†It’s¬†like¬†extracting¬†a¬†tooth,¬†basically,¬†to¬†get¬†the¬†client¬†to¬†give¬†you¬†
content. The other type is muy Thai pose very talkative in real life. And then when you toss them to 
write¬†that¬†just¬†put¬†everything¬†on¬†like¬†the¬†first¬†page,¬†and¬†then¬†it¬†becomes,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†like¬†a¬†dissertation¬†
stops, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
then there, yes. So So what you do is called free writing. So everybody has a different writing style. And 
I’m¬†actually¬†a¬†free¬†writer¬†myself.¬†So¬†when¬†I’m¬†writing,¬†I¬†mean,¬†for¬†my¬†own¬†things,¬†when¬†I’m¬†doing¬†writing,¬†
I tend to just like, just go with it and write so so much I remember I had when I was working on my PhD, 
I would spend an hour every morning, every single morning, whether I liked it or not, I opened up a 
page,¬†and¬†I¬†just¬†started¬†writing.¬†And¬†it¬†would¬†just¬†be¬†whatever¬†came.¬†And¬†I¬†find¬†that¬†that’s¬†how¬†I¬†
personally¬†get¬†the¬†best¬†ideas.¬†So¬†it’s¬†not¬†that¬†that¬†free¬†writing¬†is¬†the¬†final¬†product¬†by¬†any¬†means.¬†In¬†fact,¬†
none of that saw the light of day I printed it out, I stuck it in a binder. And then I came back a week later 
and¬†only¬†highlighted¬†things¬†that¬†were¬†actually¬†worth¬†saying.¬†And¬†that’s¬†how¬†I¬†did¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†my¬†like¬†idea¬†
generation.¬†And¬†then¬†personally¬†from¬†there,¬†once¬†I’ve¬†done¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†idea¬†generation,¬†then¬†I¬†make¬†
outlines.¬†And¬†so¬†I¬†need¬†to¬†write¬†to¬†an¬†outline.¬†So¬†if¬†I¬†don’t¬†write¬†to¬†an¬†outline,¬†then¬†it¬†ends¬†up¬†being¬†this¬†
 
like, yeah, 
 
 
yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and¬†so¬†but¬†I¬†do¬†the¬†writing,¬†because¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†really¬†a,¬†it’s¬†a¬†gift¬†to¬†be¬†able¬†to¬†just¬†sit¬†down¬†and¬†write¬†so¬†
so much because you get so many ideas out. And then you just have to know how to structure them 
later¬†so¬†that¬†other¬†people¬†can¬†understand¬†and¬†follow¬†what¬†you’re¬†writing.¬†But¬†for¬†me,¬†that’s¬†an¬†outline,¬†I¬†
write a fairly detailed outline. And then I, I kind of do a similar thing where I just like, write my way, 
sometimes¬†it¬†feels¬†like¬†you’re¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†why¬†I’m¬†walking¬†through¬†mud.¬†When¬†you’re¬†doing¬†that¬†
first¬†draft.¬†Yeah,¬†you’re¬†writing¬†to¬†an¬†outline,¬†like,¬†it’s¬†like,¬†oh,¬†there’s¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†friction¬†there.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Or¬†snow,¬†we’re¬†in¬†Canada,¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
of snow here, like a foot here now. Um, so so that first draft can sometimes be difficult. And I can 
imagine that for your business owners as well, that first draft can sometimes just feel like just not feel 
good¬†as¬†you’re¬†writing¬†it.¬†Yeah.¬†But¬†one¬†thing¬†to¬†remember¬†is¬†that¬†every¬†author¬†goes¬†through¬†that,¬†like,¬†
every¬†author¬†goes¬†through¬†that¬†like¬†first¬†draft¬†from¬†from¬†the¬†writer’s¬†block¬†to¬†a¬†blank¬†page.¬†And¬†then¬†to¬†
the final version, what I always tell myself is like it can always be perfected. So my first draft can be 
pretty¬†messy.¬†And¬†that’s¬†fine.¬†Because¬†I¬†know¬†I¬†can¬†come¬†back¬†the¬†next¬†day,¬†and¬†then¬†sleep¬†on¬†it¬†a¬†
couple days, and then come back one more time. And then then is when it starts to really shine like 
that’s,¬†and¬†that’s¬†really¬†why¬†I¬†became¬†an¬†editor.¬†It’s¬†because¬†I¬†just¬†love¬†that¬†process¬†so¬†much¬†that¬†I¬†had¬†
been doing that on my own work for so long that I was like, well, this is actually really awesome. And so 
that’s¬†why¬†I¬†went¬†into¬†not¬†so¬†much¬†of¬†the¬†writing¬†side¬†of¬†things,¬†but¬†helping¬†other¬†people¬†do¬†that,¬†that¬†
perfecting¬†stages,¬†so¬†I¬†can¬†really¬†take¬†like,¬†pretty¬†rough¬†drafts¬†and¬†turn¬†it¬†into¬†something¬†that’s¬†
publishable.¬†I’m¬†glad¬†you¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
enjoy¬†this¬†because¬†I¬†would¬†tell¬†you¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†I¬†haven’t¬†spoken¬†to¬†any¬†person¬†who¬†owns¬†a¬†small¬†
business will have a small website like, you know, 510 pages, who actually enjoy I think he says people 
get¬†busy¬†Like¬†who?¬†Yeah,¬†if¬†you’re¬†managing¬†a¬†ton¬†of¬†stuff¬†during¬†your¬†day,¬†like¬†you’ve¬†got¬†your¬†
accounting,¬†you’ve¬†got¬†your¬†sales¬†and¬†marketing¬†and¬†you’ve¬†got¬†your¬†networking¬†and¬†you¬†know,¬†trying¬†
to get more clients obviously, yeah, to survive and, and between this this and, you know, the technical 
aspect¬†of¬†the¬†website,¬†the¬†updates¬†and¬†the¬†upgrades¬†and¬†the¬†visual¬†design.¬†So¬†people¬†actually¬†don’t¬†
think¬†much¬†about¬†writing.¬†And¬†the¬†biggest¬†issue¬†that¬†also¬†i¬†don’t¬†know¬†i¬†don’t¬†want¬†to¬†say¬†it’s¬†a¬†lie¬†but¬†like¬†
there’s¬†a¬†there’s¬†a¬†big¬†misconception¬†about¬†search¬†engine¬†optimization,¬†or¬†SEO,¬†like¬†there’s¬†a,¬†I¬†don’t¬†
know, people fall into a very common trap. And no matter how many times we we keep shining the light 
on¬†it,¬†they¬†just¬†fall¬†for¬†these¬†marketing¬†messages.¬†So¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†like¬†of¬†SEO,¬†we¬†could¬†probably¬†talk¬†
for a week non stop word SEO. But the thing is what I try to tell people all the time is that, look, SEO 
has¬†two¬†arms,¬†think¬†of¬†it¬†as¬†two¬†separate¬†arms.¬†One¬†is¬†your¬†on¬†page¬†SEO,¬†that’s¬†your¬†website,¬†your¬†page,¬†your¬†content,¬†you’re¬†in¬†full¬†control¬†of¬†that.¬†The¬†other¬†one¬†is¬†the¬†off¬†page¬†SEO.¬†And¬†there’s¬†so¬†
many different things that can happen there. But the majority of the ads that people see are kind of 
either¬†blackhat¬†SEO¬†stuff¬†that’s¬†gonna¬†be¬†harmful¬†to¬†them,¬†or¬†just¬†ads,¬†like,¬†basically,¬†you¬†pay¬†for¬†
someone¬†to¬†buy¬†ads.¬†So¬†since¬†we’re¬†discussing¬†today,¬†we’re¬†discussing¬†content¬†and¬†editing¬†and¬†making¬†
things¬†look¬†good.¬†And,¬†you¬†know,¬†so¬†it’s¬†their¬†own¬†page¬†part.¬†Absolutely.¬†And¬†I¬†think¬†the¬†part¬†that¬†people¬†
struggle¬†with¬†the¬†most¬†is,¬†how¬†do¬†i¬†do¬†i¬†need¬†to¬†appease¬†Google¬†to¬†start¬†with,¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†it’s¬†not¬†
how do I make it? rank and whatever. But like, in the beginning, do I have to focus on Google to start 
with? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
So¬†you¬†don’t¬†know,¬†don’t¬†focus¬†on¬†Google?¬†Because¬†Google¬†is¬†just¬†the¬†medium¬†by¬†which¬†people¬†find¬†
your site, right? So people use search engines every day to find things, answers to questions that they 
have,¬†like,¬†Where¬†should¬†I¬†go¬†get¬†a¬†coffee,¬†or¬†what’s¬†a¬†good¬†recipe¬†for¬†chocolate¬†chip¬†cookies,¬†or¬†
whatever it is, I mean, we use we use search engines all the time. But the search engine is just the 
conduit. However, unfortunately, it is the conduit between you and your audience. So you do have to 
pay¬†attention¬†to¬†Google.¬†But¬†I¬†mean,¬†you’re¬†really¬†not¬†trying¬†to¬†please¬†Google¬†in¬†the¬†sense¬†that,¬†I¬†mean,¬†
Google’s¬†not¬†going¬†to¬†buy¬†anything¬†from¬†you,¬†it’s¬†always¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†a¬†person¬†that’s¬†buying¬†something¬†
from you. And so you do have that you do have kind of like a dual audience. But one thing that maybe 
your audience might be happy to know, is that Google is getting so so much better at understanding 
natural¬†language.¬†So¬†it’s¬†just¬†it¬†used¬†to¬†be¬†sort¬†of¬†an¬†old¬†school¬†approach¬†to¬†SEO¬†would¬†be¬†like¬†we¬†have¬†
one keyword, something really specific. Yeah. And then we write that keyword in as much as we can, 
and we stuck it here and we stuck it there. And that is a really awkward way of writing. Your audience is 
like, What are they talking about? Why did they say chocolate chip cookies for the 50th time. So that is 
like¬†just¬†not¬†a¬†good¬†form¬†of¬†writing,¬†which¬†would¬†turn¬†off¬†your¬†audience¬†anyways.¬†And¬†also,¬†it’s¬†painful¬†to¬†
write¬†that¬†way.¬†And¬†so¬†now,¬†Google¬†will¬†understand¬†natural¬†language¬†much¬†better.¬†That¬†doesn’t¬†mean¬†
that¬†you¬†can¬†ignore¬†the¬†fact¬†that¬†it¬†is¬†a¬†robot¬†that’s¬†trying¬†to¬†understand¬†a¬†page¬†of¬†text,¬†and¬†that¬†there¬†are¬†
algorithms involved. But But Google really is, I mean, if you read their documentation, so they have 
something¬†called¬†the¬†search¬†engine¬†quality¬†raters¬†guidelines,¬†and¬†it’s¬†basically¬†Google’s¬†instructions¬†to¬†
people who evaluate how good their results are, what makes a good website, what makes a bad 
website,¬†and¬†you¬†can¬†read¬†it.¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s,¬†it’s¬†a¬†really¬†great¬†document,¬†it’s¬†great¬†for¬†people¬†to¬†read,¬†
because¬†it¬†really¬†gives¬†pretty¬†clear¬†instructions¬†on¬†what¬†they’re¬†aiming¬†for¬†in¬†terms¬†of¬†what¬†they’re¬†going¬†
to¬†prioritize¬†in¬†the¬†search¬†engine¬†rankings.¬†And¬†they’re¬†really,¬†really¬†big¬†now¬†on¬†expertise,¬†like¬†they’re¬†
really¬†big¬†on¬†wanting¬†to¬†have¬†because¬†of¬†because¬†of¬†fake¬†news,¬†because¬†of¬†misinformation.¬†There’s¬†a¬†
real¬†push¬†towards¬†making¬†sure¬†that¬†the¬†things¬†that¬†are¬†coming¬†up¬†to¬†the¬†top¬†of¬†Google¬†aren’t¬†like¬†spam,¬†
or¬†aren’t¬†like¬†trying¬†to¬†manipulate¬†the¬†rankings.¬†And¬†so¬†I¬†think¬†like¬†what¬†you¬†said¬†with¬†you¬†have¬†these¬†
business¬†owners¬†that¬†if¬†you¬†took¬†them¬†out¬†to¬†coffee,¬†they’ll¬†just¬†tell¬†you¬†everything¬†they¬†like¬†real¬†experts¬†
in¬†their¬†field,¬†they¬†understand¬†it¬†top¬†to¬†bottom,¬†of¬†course,¬†they¬†are¬†like¬†that’s¬†their¬†business.¬†That’s¬†their,¬†
that’s¬†their¬†specialty.¬†That’s¬†the¬†kind¬†of¬†voice¬†that¬†Google¬†wants¬†more¬†of¬†on¬†the¬†internet.¬†It¬†doesn’t¬†want¬†
more¬†like¬†people¬†that¬†don’t¬†really¬†know¬†what¬†they’re¬†writing¬†about¬†writing¬†more¬†things¬†about¬†very¬†specific¬†
keywords. They really want to like take the voices of people who are subject matter experts. And I 
would argue that really all business owners are subject matter experts in what they 
 
 
 
do why you do it. Yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
yeah,¬†that’s¬†why¬†they¬†do¬†it.¬†I¬†mean,¬†they’re¬†certainly¬†I¬†mean,¬†if¬†you’re¬†a¬†plumber,¬†you’re¬†an¬†expert,¬†
plumber,¬†like¬†you¬†know¬†way¬†more¬†about¬†plumbing¬†and¬†other¬†people¬†that¬†don’t¬†know¬†about¬†plumbing.¬†
And so you can, you can write about it in the kind of way that both uses all the words that a plumber 
would¬†know.¬†And¬†that’s¬†the¬†real¬†difference¬†now,¬†where¬†it¬†used¬†to¬†be¬†you¬†used¬†to¬†put¬†plumber,¬†plumber,¬†
plumber,¬†plumber,¬†and¬†maybe¬†that¬†would¬†make¬†it¬†rank.¬†Now¬†Google¬†knows¬†that¬†there’s¬†a¬†whole¬†web¬†of¬†
words that go around each of these top 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
plumbing industry. Yeah, exactly. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
So¬†those¬†are¬†that¬†web¬†of¬†words,¬†which¬†really¬†come¬†up¬†quite¬†naturally.¬†If¬†you’re¬†a¬†subject¬†matter¬†expert,¬†
you¬†know,¬†you¬†don’t¬†have¬†to,¬†like,¬†do¬†any¬†tricky¬†games¬†to¬†make¬†sure¬†that¬†you’re¬†using¬†the¬†right¬†words,¬†
you¬†just¬†do¬†it,¬†because¬†that’s¬†the¬†language¬†you¬†speak.¬†And¬†that’s¬†the¬†language¬†you¬†write.¬†So¬†anyways,¬†
that’s¬†where¬†I¬†feel¬†like¬†Google¬†is¬†getting¬†better¬†and¬†better¬†at¬†understanding¬†language,¬†which¬†makes¬†it¬†
more¬†and¬†more¬†freeing¬†for¬†authors¬†to¬†be¬†able¬†to¬†publish¬†and¬†be¬†seen.¬†Now,¬†that¬†doesn’t¬†mean¬†that¬†off¬†
page¬†isn’t¬†important.¬†It¬†absolutely¬†is.¬†So¬†I’m¬†not¬†saying¬†that¬†you¬†can¬†just¬†you¬†know,¬†it’s¬†not¬†magic.¬†Like,¬†
oh, the world is your oyster no matter what. But in terms of the on page side, like, that is really what 
Google¬†is¬†aiming¬†for.¬†They’re¬†learning.¬†They’re¬†aiming¬†to¬†have¬†real¬†experts¬†in¬†their¬†fields¬†coming¬†up¬†as¬†
answers. So a plumber answering a plumber question is basically what they want. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
But¬†this¬†actually¬†means¬†that¬†if¬†you¬†please¬†the¬†humans,¬†like¬†you¬†please¬†Google,¬†right?¬†Like¬†it’s¬†not,¬†
you’re¬†writing¬†for¬†your¬†audience,¬†you’re¬†not¬†writing¬†for¬†SEO¬†purposes.¬†Like¬†I¬†mean,¬†SEO¬†will¬†come¬†
naturally.¬†And¬†you’ll¬†rank¬†higher¬†when¬†you¬†write¬†content¬†that¬†would¬†be¬†of¬†interest¬†to¬†your¬†audience.¬†And¬†I¬†
think the the first challenge normally is to find who the audiences like, are you going to talk to, like, yes, 
gonna¬†be¬†interested¬†in¬†that¬†content¬†that¬†does,¬†it’s¬†not¬†about¬†just¬†getting¬†some¬†keyword¬†research,¬†and¬†
then finding out another top 10 keywords, and then hammering it, like repeat. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
But it is I love keyword research, because it does give you that insight into the 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah,¬†you¬†need¬†to¬†know¬†what¬†you’re¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†talking¬†about¬†to¬†start¬†with.¬†Because¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
even just what your people want you to write about, right? Like keyword research is like a big database 
of stuff that people already are searching for. So you can write, you can write lots of stuff to your 
audience¬†that¬†they’re¬†just¬†like,¬†actually¬†not¬†interested¬†in¬†like¬†they¬†don’t¬†search¬†for¬†it.¬†You¬†think¬†they¬†do,¬†

but¬†they¬†don’t.¬†Yeah,¬†so¬†keyword¬†research,¬†is¬†this¬†kind¬†of¬†like¬†double¬†check¬†to¬†be¬†like,¬†Oh,¬†is¬†this¬†thing¬†

that¬†I’m¬†about¬†to¬†write¬†about¬†actually¬†of¬†interest¬†to¬†my¬†audience,¬†or¬†has¬†no¬†one¬†ever¬†searched¬†it¬†before.¬†
And¬†that’s¬†an¬†important¬†thing¬†to¬†recognize.¬†Now,¬†you¬†might¬†be¬†getting¬†your¬†traffic¬†and¬†other¬†ways¬†not¬†
Google,¬†in¬†which¬†case,¬†go¬†ahead.¬†And¬†like¬†if¬†you’re,¬†you¬†have¬†an¬†email¬†list,¬†or¬†you’re¬†doing¬†social¬†media¬†
or some other way directly 
 
 
to you. So yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I¬†mean,¬†people¬†are¬†interested¬†in¬†things¬†that¬†they¬†don’t¬†search¬†for,¬†obviously,¬†but¬†I¬†do¬†think¬†that¬†keyword¬†
research¬†can¬†be¬†a¬†good¬†place¬†to¬†start,¬†if¬†you’re¬†starting¬†a¬†new¬†website,¬†just¬†to¬†get¬†an¬†idea¬†of¬†the¬†
landscape¬†of¬†things¬†that¬†your¬†audience¬†would¬†be¬†interested¬†in,¬†you¬†can¬†kind¬†of¬†be¬†like,¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†have¬†a¬†
section¬†on¬†my¬†website¬†about¬†that.¬†And¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†have¬†a¬†section¬†around¬†here.¬†And¬†then¬†you¬†can¬†kind¬†of¬†
start planning things out by a keyword research, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
I find that like, sometimes, what happens is that we get sucked into our own industry as well. And then 
we use terms that may be known to like, for example, website optimization. That term is known 
amongst web designers, because we want to optimize the website. And optimization could mean 
different¬†things¬†could¬†be¬†content¬†optimization,¬†which¬†is¬†what¬†we’re¬†discussing¬†today.¬†It¬†could¬†be¬†speed,¬†
like¬†to¬†make¬†the¬†website¬†load¬†faster.¬†But¬†if¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†marketing,¬†website¬†optimization,¬†to¬†the¬†small¬†
business¬†owner,¬†they¬†wouldn’t¬†know¬†that¬†word.¬†They’d¬†probably¬†be¬†searching¬†for¬†slow¬†website¬†because¬†
they¬†don’t¬†want¬†it¬†to¬†be¬†slow¬†or¬†fix¬†a¬†slow¬†website¬†or¬†make¬†my¬†website¬†load¬†faster.¬†So¬†that’s¬†the¬†idea¬†is¬†
that the Why is my 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
website slow? 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Is Divi slow? No, Divi on its own is not slow. Is the layout that you chose? Or the amount of photos that 
you¬†put¬†on¬†there¬†or¬†whatever?¬†It’s¬†not?¬†Nobody¬†would¬†create¬†the¬†slow¬†product¬†by¬†design.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah,¬†no.¬†And¬†it’s¬†very¬†true.¬†Like¬†when,¬†when¬†you’re¬†looking¬†at¬†the¬†keywords,¬†I¬†always¬†try¬†to¬†like,¬†put¬†my¬†
hat¬†on¬†me¬†who¬†is¬†actually¬†searching¬†this,¬†like,¬†is¬†this?¬†it?¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†I¬†don’t¬†even¬†know¬†how¬†to¬†explain¬†
it.¬†But¬†it’s¬†like,¬†you¬†just¬†have¬†to¬†have¬†this¬†empathy,¬†where¬†you’re¬†thinking,¬†what¬†type¬†of¬†person¬†would¬†be¬†
searching this? So in a good example, is something like why is my website slow? versus like, how can I 
optimize¬†my¬†website¬†page¬†speed¬†loading¬†time?¬†You¬†know,¬†like,¬†yeah,¬†that’s¬†kind¬†of¬†imagine¬†that¬†the¬†
second one is probably a web designer. So like, if you wrote in that way? And if you answered that 
question,¬†well,¬†you’re¬†probably¬†going¬†to¬†attract¬†a¬†bunch¬†of¬†web¬†designers.¬†And¬†if¬†that’s¬†your¬†clientele,¬†
that’s¬†great.¬†But¬†if¬†you’re¬†looking¬†for¬†small¬†business¬†owners¬†with¬†smaller¬†with¬†slow¬†websites,¬†then¬†you¬†
want¬†to¬†write¬†Why¬†is¬†my¬†website¬†slow?¬†These¬†are¬†the¬†reasons¬†why¬†your¬†website¬†is¬†slow.¬†And¬†then¬†that’s¬†
how¬†you’ll¬†get¬†that¬†audience.¬†Like¬†it’s¬†quite¬†specific¬†the¬†audience¬†and¬†how¬†they¬†write.¬†And¬†so¬†then¬†you¬†
 
want to make sure that your text matches that language. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So¬†as¬†an¬†editor,¬†mm,¬†do¬†you¬†first¬†ask¬†the¬†person¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†who’s¬†using¬†your¬†service?¬†Who’s¬†your¬†
audience¬†like,¬†do¬†you¬†is¬†that¬†part¬†of¬†Yeah,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
My personal audience like who is my audience 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
know¬†who’s¬†like,¬†let’s¬†say¬†for¬†example,¬†you’re¬†hired¬†by¬†I¬†don’t¬†know.¬†Like,¬†I¬†a¬†CPA¬†accountant.¬†Okay,¬†
yeah, somebody in that domain, they have a website and they will have their clientele but like, do you 
first¬†need¬†to¬†find¬†out?¬†Who¬†you’re¬†trying¬†to¬†talk¬†to?¬†Right,¬†like?¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
So?¬†So¬†it’s¬†also,¬†um,¬†in¬†a¬†sense,¬†this¬†isn’t¬†as¬†crazy¬†of¬†a¬†question¬†as¬†you¬†might¬†think,¬†because¬†an¬†editor¬†
is always writing to an audience. So, so one way to explain what an editor does, is that an editor works 
with¬†the¬†author¬†in,¬†in¬†service¬†of¬†the¬†reader.¬†And¬†so¬†it’s¬†always¬†trying¬†to¬†help¬†the¬†author¬†get¬†their¬†message¬†
across to the reader, but the reader is always a specific kind of person. Right? So who is the writer is 
the reader a bunch of scientists who are very fun with the jargon is the reader like, mom who just wants 
to figure out whether her kid is sick or not, like, who knows what, who the reader is. So as an editor, you 
sort¬†of¬†always¬†do¬†need¬†to¬†know¬†the¬†audience.¬†It’s¬†not¬†always¬†defined¬†as¬†like¬†a¬†like¬†a,¬†like¬†an¬†in¬†market¬†
type¬†audience.¬†But¬†there’s¬†always¬†a¬†human¬†being¬†on¬†the¬†other¬†side¬†that¬†you¬†have¬†to¬†write¬†to.¬†And¬†
people¬†prefer¬†different¬†types¬†of¬†writing,¬†depending¬†on¬†who¬†they¬†are.¬†So¬†I¬†do¬†always¬†ask¬†when¬†I’m¬†
working with a small business, I always ask who their audiences. But one of the benefits of being an 
editor¬†is¬†that¬†I,¬†and¬†also¬†sort¬†of¬†one¬†of¬†the¬†kind¬†of¬†reasons¬†why¬†I’m¬†an¬†editor,¬†kind¬†of¬†the¬†idea¬†of¬†being¬†an¬†
editor is that you always trust the author to know their audience best. Yes. Right. Because they like 
your person who you were talking about in the coffee shop, they know how to talk about their business 
to¬†their¬†audience.¬†And¬†so¬†like,¬†I’m¬†not¬†going¬†to¬†come¬†in¬†between¬†them¬†and¬†say,¬†Oh,¬†no,¬†like,¬†I¬†think¬†I¬†
think when I think of your audience, I think of this and this, I might be like, I might give some small 
suggestions.¬†But¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†really¬†respecting¬†the¬†author,¬†because¬†they¬†are¬†the¬†expert¬†in¬†there,¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
like the performance booster. 
 
 
I like that. Yeah. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
If¬†that¬†you¬†put¬†in¬†your¬†car¬†to¬†make¬†it.¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†when¬†the¬†race.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
There you go. Yeah, I would love to be that. 
 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
If¬†you¬†do¬†some,¬†you¬†know,¬†like,¬†when¬†you¬†look¬†at¬†your,¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†take¬†you¬†back¬†to¬†SEO.¬†But¬†when¬†
you look at your analytics, like when someone looks at, you know, the analytics report of their website, 
like¬†for¬†me,¬†sometimes¬†I¬†look,¬†and¬†I¬†find¬†that¬†I’m¬†my¬†site¬†is¬†ranking¬†high.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†In¬†some¬†searches¬†on¬†
Google,¬†that¬†are¬†kind¬†of¬†I¬†wouldn’t¬†call¬†them¬†not¬†related¬†to¬†my¬†business,¬†but¬†they’re¬†not¬†necessarily¬†the¬†
words that I would use. Do I go on bank on that? Like, if if I feel like, people search for something could 
be related, or maybe remotely related to what the business is? Mm hmm. But as a result of that strain 
search, they landed on my website, should I try to please them? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
It¬†really¬†depends¬†on¬†what¬†the¬†words¬†are¬†and¬†where¬†they’re¬†landing.¬†So¬†I¬†have¬†a¬†good¬†example¬†that¬†I¬†can¬†
probably tell you, I was looking at a website, once that was, had written this really nice list of 50 ways to 
date your spouse, it was all these like ideas of things you could do like you could go on a movie theater, 
you could like have a nice smorgasbord at home. 50 nice, perfectly fine date ideas. I mean, nothing 
wrong with it. And they titled The, the post 51st dates. And so because, right, so they thought it was 
really¬†cute.¬†Like¬†Eau¬†de¬†it’s¬†just¬†like,¬†there¬†is¬†nothing¬†wrong¬†with¬†a¬†movie.¬†There’s¬†and¬†there¬†was¬†nothing¬†
wrong with the post, either. The post itself was decently valuable. 
 
 
Yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
unfortunately, because they titled it 51st dates, it was coming up for like 54 states download 54 states 
review,¬†like¬†54¬†states¬†streaming.¬†And¬†so¬†there’s¬†a¬†good¬†example¬†of¬†Well,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†who¬†their¬†
audience¬†was.¬†But¬†I¬†know¬†that¬†they¬†weren’t¬†looking,¬†they¬†did¬†not¬†have¬†the¬†download,¬†right?¬†They¬†the¬†
people that were were clicking, and they were looking 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
trying to find the movie. Yeah. Yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
things¬†that¬†they¬†could¬†do¬†with¬†them.¬†And¬†that¬†wasn’t¬†exactly¬†what¬†they¬†were¬†looking¬†for.¬†So¬†there¬†is¬†a¬†
case where I would change the title and reframe it to make sure that you got the right audience, people 
who were actually looking for date ideas, rather than people who are looking to download a movie. But 
if in another example, if you had a web, if you had a page on your website that was ranking for 
something¬†unexpected,¬†that’s¬†maybe¬†not¬†how¬†you¬†would¬†have¬†thought¬†that¬†it¬†was,¬†but¬†you¬†could¬†
imagine,¬†Oh,¬†actually,¬†this,¬†you¬†know,¬†Google’s¬†pretty¬†smart.¬†They’ve¬†matched¬†me¬†up¬†with¬†somebody¬†
who is maybe gonna buy from my business one day, or is maybe interested in what I have to say, then 
you¬†could¬†optimize¬†for¬†that¬†new¬†term,¬†or¬†just¬†to¬†kind¬†of¬†see¬†how¬†it’s¬†working.¬†I¬†mean,¬†you¬†could¬†also¬†set¬†
up¬†conversion¬†tracking¬†and¬†figure¬†out¬†if¬†those¬†people¬†buy¬†from¬†you.¬†But¬†I¬†think¬†that¬†that’s¬†probably¬†the¬†
best way to think about it. So if the other thing to think about too is that there is a certain level of topical 
authority¬†that¬†a¬†website¬†has.¬†So¬†if¬†you’re¬†constantly¬†writing¬†about¬†websites¬†and¬†speeding¬†them¬†up,¬†and¬†
 
how to make a website and websites in Canada or whatever it is that you write about, Google starts to 
understand you as the expert on that field. So if you went out and like wrote about mattresses, even if 
you ranked, it was kind of not be great. Like maybe you could write a fantastic article about mattresses, 
it¬†probably¬†be¬†hard¬†for¬†you¬†to¬†rank¬†if¬†you’re¬†normally¬†writing¬†about¬†computers.¬†but¬†also¬†those¬†people¬†are¬†
never¬†going¬†to¬†buy¬†from¬†you.¬†And¬†you’re¬†a¬†little¬†bit¬†sending¬†mixed¬†signals¬†to¬†Google¬†about¬†what¬†your¬†
site¬†is¬†really¬†about.¬†So¬†if¬†it’s¬†really¬†out¬†there¬†and¬†left¬†field,¬†I¬†wouldn’t¬†do¬†it.¬†If¬†you¬†think,¬†oh,¬†there’s¬†a¬†
business opportunity here, then like, try optimizing around it. See what happens. Yeah, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
I¬†can’t¬†remember¬†the¬†exact¬†keyword.¬†I¬†remember¬†it¬†was.¬†It¬†wasn’t¬†necessarily¬†web¬†design,¬†but¬†it¬†was¬†
business related. And I was thinking like, maybe, I mean, probably people for that specific keyword that 
I¬†can’t¬†remember¬†now¬†landed¬†on¬†one¬†of¬†my¬†old¬†blog¬†posts¬†that¬†had¬†something¬†similar,¬†you¬†know,¬†
because¬†when¬†I¬†started¬†my¬†business,¬†it¬†wasn’t¬†straight¬†about¬†web¬†design¬†and¬†web¬†development.¬†I¬†
actually, I was selling and servicing software. Oh, interesting. There was some software that was about 
employee recognition. There was some software that was about ratings rating, the services that you get 
in service establishments, like pretty much like what Google reviews is about. Now. before Google had 
Google reviews, people used to use Yelp, but Yelp was also not working for them. So there was another 
software that bridge that gap. And I think Google to cover that part. Now. Google being Google. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Don’t¬†get¬†into¬†that¬†business.¬†Yeah,¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
exactly.¬†But¬†it’s¬†funny¬†because¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†when¬†you¬†mentioned,¬†plumbing,¬†for¬†example,¬†Uh¬†huh.¬†If,¬†
if¬†I’m¬†building¬†a¬†website¬†for¬†a¬†plumber,¬†and¬†I’m¬†telling¬†them¬†to¬†blog,¬†sometimes¬†they¬†think¬†that¬†people¬†
don’t¬†want¬†to¬†know¬†like¬†about¬†plumbing.¬†I¬†mean,¬†maybe¬†plumbing¬†is¬†an¬†obvious¬†example.¬†I’ll¬†give¬†you¬†an¬†
example.¬†That’s¬†a¬†little¬†bit¬†hard¬†at¬†a¬†pizzeria.¬†So¬†you’re¬†as¬†r1¬†Yeah,¬†you’re¬†building¬†a¬†website¬†for¬†a¬†
pizzeria. And over they want to have that as maybe as a menu. Yeah, their location, and some of the 
reviews¬†and¬†understand¬†but¬†they¬†don’t¬†want¬†to¬†blog¬†about¬†pizza.¬†No,¬†they¬†need¬†to,¬†but¬†they¬†need¬†to¬†
write? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Well,¬†it’s,¬†it’s¬†hard¬†because¬†of¬†a¬†local¬†pizzeria.¬†I¬†mean,¬†what¬†are¬†you¬†gonna¬†write¬†about?¬†You’re¬†gonna¬†
write about like, pizza recipes? 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
No. Yeah, maybe? Yeah, exactly. But 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
like, wait, like, we want you to buy our pizza. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
You¬†don’t¬†want¬†you¬†to¬†get¬†home?¬†Yeah.¬†Don’t¬†give¬†them¬†your¬†actual.¬†
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah,¬†maybe¬†that’s¬†the¬†Yeah,¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s¬†hard.¬†So¬†I¬†think¬†that’s¬†why¬†there¬†is¬†on¬†page¬†slash¬†off,¬†
 
 
just¬†reminded¬†me¬†of¬†something¬†so¬†funny.¬†But¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†if¬†you’ve¬†watched¬†Seinfeld,¬†but¬†
 
 
not for a while. But 
 
 
the Soup Nazi and then oh, yeah, um, the recipes and an old cupboard? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah,¬†I’m¬†sure¬†people¬†search¬†that¬†that¬†would¬†be¬†that¬†has¬†some¬†search¬†for¬†like¬†minded.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
The recipes. Were there. Yeah. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Small¬†businesses¬†that¬†are¬†really¬†local.¬†Like,¬†you¬†can’t¬†send¬†a¬†pizza¬†to¬†somebody¬†on¬†the¬†other¬†side¬†of¬†the¬†
country.¬†They¬†really¬†they’re¬†only¬†interested¬†in¬†getting¬†people¬†coming¬†to¬†their¬†site¬†that¬†are¬†really,¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
yeah,¬†so¬†they’re¬†either¬†gonna¬†come¬†and¬†dine¬†in¬†or¬†order¬†this¬†or¬†delivery,¬†or¬†come¬†and¬†pick¬†it¬†up.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I mean, certainly, for me, you know, this, of course, but certainly build out the course cipher. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
But¬†being¬†the¬†expert,¬†that’s¬†the¬†thing¬†like¬†you,¬†you¬†are¬†the¬†expert¬†on¬†pizza.¬†So¬†you¬†gotta¬†let¬†the¬†world¬†
know,¬†as¬†well¬†as¬†Google.¬†That’s¬†what¬†I’m¬†saying.¬†Like,¬†you’re¬†not¬†only¬†trying¬†to¬†please¬†Google,¬†you’re¬†
trying to please the humans. But you got to give them some fresh content at some point, like your fresh 
pizza. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yes. Or like, your specials and all that. Yeah. But also, um, there can be so if you can be really creative. 
And if you have a business owner in those types of industries, where content is just legitimately hard to 
come up with, yeah, that you know, content that you care enough about, because 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
it’s¬†hard¬†to¬†differentiate¬†yourself.¬†
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah.¬†And¬†it’s¬†kind¬†of¬†in¬†written¬†before¬†and¬†like,¬†people¬†really¬†want¬†to¬†like,¬†read¬†more¬†about¬†holycross¬†
Maybe,¬†maybe¬†not¬†hard¬†to¬†say.¬†I¬†mean,¬†certainly,¬†there’s¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†people¬†that¬†are¬†looking¬†for¬†pizza¬†
recipes,¬†but¬†they’re¬†probably¬†not¬†as¬†much¬†for¬†people.¬†However,¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s¬†not¬†a¬†terrible¬†idea.¬†But¬†one¬†
thing that can be really useful. So just to say what you could do with a business like that, is if you 
manage to find something really creative and really interesting and really outside of the box to create on 
the¬†internet,¬†that¬†can¬†sometimes¬†act¬†as¬†a¬†real¬†link¬†magnet.¬†So¬†I¬†can’t¬†I¬†mean,¬†maybe¬†you¬†made¬†up¬†a¬†
game for like pizzas who knows this or that or something that was really like, actually out of the box and 
interesting 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
and then probably tell people to blog about maybe the components not not the recipe but like kind of 
why¬†fresh¬†oregano¬†is¬†good.¬†Whatever,¬†that’s¬†Margarita¬†pizza¬†or¬†something¬†like¬†that.¬†Yeah.¬†And¬†and¬†also,¬†
maybe¬†why¬†is¬†or¬†the¬†orphans¬†like¬†we’ve¬†got¬†Somebody’s¬†on¬†the¬†corner¬†here¬†who’s¬†got¬†imported¬†the¬†
brick¬†oven¬†from¬†Italy?¬†Interesting.¬†Yeah,¬†it¬†is¬†absolutely¬†amazing.¬†It’s¬†so¬†much¬†different¬†from¬†pizza¬†that¬†
goes¬†into¬†any¬†other¬†like¬†gas¬†oven¬†or¬†electric¬†oven¬†or¬†whatever.¬†Because¬†you¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†that.¬†There’s¬†
something in the burn not completely around. But like in the bird smell of the croaky. Yeah, the 
smokiness¬†of¬†that¬†oven.¬†And¬†it¬†doesn’t¬†stay¬†for¬†a¬†lot.¬†If¬†you¬†go¬†and¬†order.¬†The¬†pizza¬†is¬†on¬†your¬†table¬†in¬†
five¬†minutes.¬†It’s¬†like¬†what¬†basically¬†gets¬†in¬†the¬†oven¬†smells¬†that¬†smokiness¬†comes¬†back¬†out¬†and¬†is¬†
ready to eat 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Wonderful.¬†Well,¬†not¬†something¬†where¬†like,¬†you¬†would¬†put¬†that¬†on¬†your¬†website¬†anyway,¬†it’s¬†because¬†it¬†
makes you unique, right? So even if it Yeah, this type of thing that when people are choosing which 
pizzeria to go to like, Whoa, that sounds very interesting. And like you could write you know how it got 
to your company. And and you know, exactly the story of it coming on the 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
story¬†of¬†importing¬†the¬†orphan¬†from¬†Italy¬†and¬†dislike¬†assembling¬†it¬†here.¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†did¬†you¬†have¬†to¬†
build¬†it¬†brick¬†by¬†brick?¬†I¬†mean,¬†I’m¬†sure¬†that¬†not¬†everybody¬†who¬†eats¬†there¬†wants¬†to¬†know¬†the¬†story.¬†But¬†if¬†
you put it, many people will be inspired to come and check it out. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yes,¬†well,¬†you’re¬†not¬†unique.¬†So¬†it’s,¬†it’s¬†an¬†interesting¬†thing.¬†And¬†you¬†always¬†I¬†mean,¬†anything¬†you¬†put¬†
on your website, you want your existing customers, to be pleased to have seen it right. So anything you 
put on your website, you need to make sure that it speaks both to the Google audience to sort of like, 
establish you as a field as an expert in that field. But also, you want to make sure that if your actual 
existing¬†customers¬†see¬†it,¬†they’re¬†not¬†like,¬†Huh,¬†why¬†are¬†you¬†writing¬†about?¬†So¬†you¬†do¬†have¬†to¬†stay¬†on¬†
topic¬†for¬†that¬†reason?¬†Because¬†it’s¬†still¬†your¬†website?¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah,¬†so¬†it’s¬†interesting,¬†because¬†like,¬†for¬†many¬†of¬†these¬†small¬†business¬†owners,¬†they¬†think¬†the,¬†the,¬†the¬†
answer¬†to¬†their¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†Google¬†vows¬†is¬†to¬†just¬†go¬†and¬†get¬†ads¬†placement.¬†And¬†it’s¬†not¬†necessarily¬†a¬†
 
right,¬†it¬†can¬†work¬†in¬†certain¬†settings.¬†But¬†it¬†can¬†be¬†expensive.¬†Yeah,¬†and¬†it’s¬†also¬†this¬†is¬†the¬†thing,¬†you’re¬†
gonna¬†end¬†up¬†paying¬†forever,¬†right?¬†If¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†stay¬†there,¬†you¬†will¬†keep¬†paying¬†to¬†stay¬†there.¬†So¬†it’s,¬†
you have to have an ad budget that is there for the rest of your business life like, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and¬†you’re¬†likely¬†to¬†have¬†to¬†keep¬†paying¬†more¬†and¬†more¬†like¬†that.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
become more competitive the keyword, yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and cause them to go down. And so it typically goes up. But the other thing, I mean, you know, this, but 
just¬†to¬†say¬†the¬†other¬†really¬†important¬†thing¬†is¬†reviews,¬†right?¬†So¬†like¬†for¬†an¬†for¬†that’s¬†kind¬†of¬†in¬†a¬†small¬†
business, like a pizzeria, having a really robust system to try to just get as many reviews as you can 
from¬†your¬†happy¬†customers.¬†That’s¬†the¬†money¬†in¬†the¬†bank.¬†So¬†like,¬†that’s¬†how¬†you¬†can,¬†that’s¬†how¬†you¬†
can be ranked higher in that all important local pack right on the map at the top of the Google results. 
So there are many things that play into that which part you get in that three pack. But reviews are very, 
very¬†important.¬†And¬†so¬†I¬†know¬†like¬†my¬†dentist¬†here,¬†he’s¬†just¬†a¬†maniac.¬†And¬†they¬†have¬†the¬†best,¬†like¬†they¬†
have so many good reviews. And I mean, way more than everybody else in the city. And they do it 
because¬†like¬†they’re¬†just¬†a¬†bit¬†relentless.¬†But¬†like¬†you¬†kind¬†of¬†want¬†to¬†help¬†them.¬†That’s¬†good.¬†
 
 
Yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I¬†mean,¬†like¬†it¬†is¬†they’re¬†just¬†they¬†make¬†it¬†really¬†easy¬†to¬†give¬†them¬†a¬†review,¬†and¬†they¬†learn¬†
 
 
from you. Or, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
like¬†the¬†guy¬†that¬†works¬†there¬†is¬†just¬†really¬†friendly.¬†And¬†he’ll¬†like¬†he,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†gave¬†him¬†a¬†review.¬†Like,¬†
yeah, he texted me personally said, Oh, like I had texted him and said, thanks so much for blah, blah, 
blah. And they said, Oh, we would be so you would be able to write a review. It matters so much to our 
business.¬†Here’s¬†the¬†link,¬†I¬†did¬†it.¬†It¬†was¬†like¬†a¬†five¬†minute¬†job,¬†no¬†big¬†deal.¬†And¬†now¬†I’m¬†one¬†of¬†441¬†
people¬†that¬†have¬†read¬†this¬†business.¬†It’s¬†huge,¬†like,¬†but¬†the¬†difference.¬†I¬†mean,¬†now¬†they¬†just¬†they¬†
dominate¬†because¬†they¬†have¬†so¬†many¬†positive¬†reviews.¬†And¬†it’s¬†because¬†they¬†really¬†invested¬†like¬†
energy¬†into¬†getting¬†those¬†reviews.¬†And¬†kind¬†of¬†once¬†you¬†have¬†your¬†systems¬†in¬†place,¬†I¬†can¬†imagine¬†it’s¬†
not as 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
first¬†time.¬†No,¬†and¬†it’s¬†not,¬†it’s¬†not¬†hard¬†to¬†have¬†these¬†systems¬†in¬†place¬†anyway.¬†I¬†mean,¬†the¬†Google¬†map¬†
is¬†a¬†link.¬†So¬†it’s¬†just¬†like¬†to¬†figure¬†out,¬†what’s¬†the¬†best¬†way¬†to¬†send¬†this¬†link¬†to¬†your¬†customers¬†that¬†same¬†
 
it’s¬†not,¬†you¬†know,¬†you¬†don’t¬†need¬†a¬†web¬†designer¬†for¬†that.¬†But¬†if¬†you¬†need¬†help,¬†I’m¬†happy¬†to¬†help¬†
people make sure that they a they do have an actual Google My Business. 
 
 
That’s¬†very¬†important,¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
you know, an active one on Google My Business so they can be found on the map, bees that they can 
easily¬†communicate¬†or¬†automate¬†the¬†process¬†of¬†asking¬†people¬†for¬†reviews.¬†And¬†but¬†it’s¬†very,¬†very¬†
important¬†as¬†well,¬†for¬†you¬†to¬†answer¬†so¬†if¬†somebody¬†leaves¬†a¬†review,¬†even¬†if¬†it’s¬†a¬†good¬†review,¬†like¬†I¬†
see. I see some businesses only respond when somebody is you know, kind of complaining about 
something¬†and¬†It’s¬†good¬†to¬†also,¬†you¬†know,¬†to¬†always¬†answer¬†a¬†complain,¬†because¬†it¬†shows¬†the¬†world¬†
that¬†you¬†care¬†and¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†we’re¬†all¬†human,¬†sometimes¬†things¬†will¬†go¬†wrong,¬†things¬†will¬†go¬†wrong,¬†
as¬†long¬†as¬†you’re¬†able¬†to¬†explain,¬†you¬†know,¬†what¬†happened¬†and¬†what,¬†more¬†importantly,¬†it’s¬†not¬†just¬†
what¬†happened.¬†But¬†what¬†measures¬†are¬†you¬†taking¬†in¬†order¬†for¬†this¬†not¬†to¬†happen¬†again?¬†That’s,¬†that’s¬†
what everyone is interested to know. Like, how, how did you fix it? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
How did you deal with conflict? Right? Like, how did you like the the axiom, and the way to think about 
it is you get in touch with the person who had a problem with your business, or your service, or 
whatever it was in the same means that they got in touch with you. So if someone writes you an email, 
you write the rights. If somebody writes you a negative review, you say, oh, my goodness, thank you so 
much¬†for¬†bringing¬†that¬†to¬†our¬†attention,¬†like¬†please¬†X,¬†Y,¬†and¬†Z,¬†and¬†I’ll¬†be¬†in¬†touch.¬†And¬†then,¬†you¬†know,¬†
you just you solve the problem publicly. So even though you probably would have always solved the 
problem, privately, you want to solve it publicly. So everybody knows that you saw 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Exactly.¬†I¬†mean,¬†sometimes¬†it’s¬†something¬†like,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†my¬†my¬†cell¬†phone¬†provider,¬†for¬†example.¬†
They¬†don’t¬†have¬†as¬†many¬†towers¬†here.¬†So¬†as¬†a¬†result,¬†the¬†signal¬†is¬†really¬†weak.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
We apparently, we have terrible phone in Canada. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Like,¬†guys,¬†like¬†every¬†time¬†I¬†contact¬†them,¬†it’s¬†been¬†three¬†and¬†a¬†half¬†years.¬†And¬†at¬†the¬†end,¬†there’s¬†a¬†
switch¬†provider¬†I’ve¬†had¬†enough.¬†Like,¬†there’s¬†no¬†point.¬†You¬†know,¬†it¬†shows¬†me¬†as¬†roaming¬†in¬†my¬†house.¬†
worse.¬†Yeah,¬†I’m¬†in¬†the¬†bathroom.¬†I’m¬†roaming.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
So this is slightly off topic. But like Canada in general has pretty terrible cell service. I got so I did. 
African history is my degree, far, far better cell service in the middle of the Serengeti, because of 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
 
the¬†trees.¬†We¬†have¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†tree¬†I¬†don’t¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
know.¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†just¬†something¬†about¬†us¬†being¬†a¬†big¬†country.¬†And¬†it¬†being¬†expensive¬†to¬†put¬†lots¬†of¬†
towers here, there and everywhere. But like really, truly, middle of the Serengeti, no problem data, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
everything¬†they’ve¬†got¬†no¬†interference¬†is¬†open.¬†Yeah,¬†just¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
a nice, big open send an email, it was fine. Anyways, Canada is like, just so behind 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
it,¬†this¬†is¬†something¬†that¬†like¬†for¬†every¬†service¬†provider,¬†you¬†know,¬†it’s¬†important¬†for¬†them,¬†you¬†know,¬†big¬†
or small company, I know that I usually speak about small businesses, and entrepreneurs, because this 
is¬†my¬†you¬†know,¬†circle.¬†But¬†generally,¬†even¬†bigger¬†companies¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†if¬†you’re¬†a¬†if¬†you’re¬†an¬†
enterprise¬†or¬†a¬†big¬†company,¬†you’d¬†be¬†surprised¬†how,¬†you¬†know,¬†we¬†appear¬†on¬†Google¬†searches,¬†and¬†
sometimes you appear up high for the wrong reason, because you have many complaints and stuff. So 
this¬†is¬†something¬†that¬†ties¬†into¬†what¬†we’re¬†discussing¬†today,¬†you¬†have¬†to¬†put¬†the¬†content¬†out¬†there,¬†even¬†
if that content is your solution to the problem that people are googling, like, if you look at your analytics, 
you¬†probably¬†find,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†40%¬†landing¬†on¬†your¬†page¬†for¬†the¬†wrong¬†reason,¬†you¬†have¬†to¬†address¬†
that,¬†that¬†that’s¬†bad¬†to¬†your¬†reputation.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Well,¬†and¬†you¬†also¬†want¬†to¬†make¬†sure¬†that¬†when¬†you¬†look¬†through¬†the¬†keywords¬†that¬†you’re¬†coming¬†out¬†
for,¬†you¬†need¬†to¬†make¬†sure¬†that¬†you¬†know¬†they’re¬†as¬†tailored¬†to¬†your¬†audience¬†as¬†you¬†can.¬†So¬†I¬†mean,¬†
most¬†businesses¬†will¬†have¬†like¬†their¬†brand¬†name,¬†be¬†the¬†I¬†mean,¬†if¬†you’re¬†looking¬†at¬†sort¬†of¬†like¬†low¬†
hanging¬†fruit¬†for¬†SEO,¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†make¬†sure¬†that¬†you’re¬†first¬†just¬†ranking¬†well¬†for¬†your¬†brand¬†name¬†that¬†
when¬†people¬†go¬†and¬†look¬†for¬†you¬†on¬†the¬†internet¬†using¬†Google,¬†they¬†find¬†you¬†Yeah,¬†that’s¬†like¬†priority¬†
number one. But beyond that, you want to make sure that the other pages on your website are ranking 
in some way for things that are related to your business. So things that you sell or problems that you 
solve.¬†There’s¬†a¬†fantastic¬†book¬†called¬†they¬†ask¬†you¬†answer.¬†And¬†it’s¬†one¬†of¬†these¬†content¬†marketing¬†
books.¬†I¬†just,¬†it’s¬†one¬†of¬†the¬†most¬†down¬†to¬†earth¬†content.¬†I’ve¬†read¬†all¬†the¬†content¬†marketing¬†books,¬†and¬†I¬†
actually, to be honest, love them all. But this one is the most down to earth, which I would totally 
recommend to anybody who is just trying to get past this, like, why would I answer all this stuff on the 
internet. And it just gives a really compelling reason and a lot of really good examples of why people do 
all¬†their¬†research¬†on¬†anything,¬†including¬†what¬†these¬†are,¬†they’re¬†going¬†to¬†buy¬†on¬†the¬†internet.¬†And¬†so¬†the¬†
way that modern buying and selling happens is that people self educate and find the right company for 
them. And by the time they actually get in touch with you like by the time they fill out your contact form, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
they’re¬†ready¬†to¬†buy.¬†
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
They’re¬†like¬†80%¬†there,¬†right?¬†And¬†this¬†wasn’t¬†what¬†it¬†was,¬†like¬†10¬†years¬†ago¬†before¬†Google.¬†As¬†a¬†
business owner, you could kind of like hold all this information to yourself, and you could say, oh, like 
I’m¬†not¬†gonna¬†tell¬†you¬†how¬†to¬†fix¬†your¬†own¬†toilet¬†because¬†I’m¬†a¬†plumber¬†gonna¬†use¬†me.¬†Yeah,¬†you’re¬†
never gonna hire me, right? But what you actually want as a plumber is people with broken toilets, 
right? Like, what you really want is you want to find the audience of people who have toilets in your city 
that need fixing right now that might be leaking or might be making funny noises or just not flushing 
anymore. And so you want to be the trusted source. Some people might take your your like instructions 
and¬†do¬†it¬†themselves.¬†But¬†like,¬†that’s¬†fine.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
But anyway for now, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and¬†then¬†another¬†people¬†like¬†me¬†that’s¬†like,¬†Oh,¬†no,¬†no,¬†I¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
will start them about thoughts that yeah, exactly 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
like, Oh, this like furnace repair person. And really like the companies that do this, that answer all the 
questions that they get every single day on their website, they thrive, because people do want to know 
how¬†much¬†it’s¬†going¬†to¬†cost¬†to¬†have¬†an¬†air¬†conditioner¬†installed,¬†and¬†what¬†their¬†options¬†are?¬†And¬†when¬†
should they buy this one or that one? Or I hate 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
it¬†when¬†companies¬†don’t¬†put¬†their¬†pricing?¬†I¬†mean,¬†I¬†do¬†understand,¬†like,¬†okay,¬†I¬†don’t¬†have¬†my¬†pricing,¬†
and¬†I’m¬†not¬†doing¬†it¬†on¬†purpose.¬†But¬†my¬†pricing¬†is¬†based¬†on¬†what¬†type¬†of¬†website¬†what¬†how¬†much¬†
content¬†you¬†have,¬†is¬†it¬†ecommerce¬†or¬†not¬†ecommerce.¬†So¬†there’s¬†no¬†one¬†size¬†fits¬†all,¬†it’s¬†hard¬†for¬†me¬†to¬†
quote¬†a¬†generic¬†price¬†that¬†will¬†not¬†serve¬†anyone¬†because¬†it’s¬†a¬†service.¬†But¬†there¬†are¬†some¬†services¬†that¬†
for the for these specific services, the prices are kind of known, like changing the oil, you know, your car 
service, right? You know that it ranges from x to y you you have to put that oil change pricing because 
people be googling, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
they’re¬†going¬†to¬†market¬†your¬†they’re¬†going¬†to¬†go¬†to¬†your¬†competitor¬†who¬†was¬†more¬†transparent.¬†They¬†
had¬†when¬†when¬†people¬†don’t¬†put¬†their¬†prices¬†at¬†all¬†on¬†the¬†website,¬†it¬†really¬†is¬†quite¬†cagey.¬†Right.¬†Like¬†it’s,¬†
it’s¬†telling¬†your¬†your¬†audience¬†No,¬†no,¬†no,¬†I’m¬†holding¬†that¬†to¬†myself,¬†because¬†maybe¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†charge¬†
you¬†more¬†because¬†you’re¬†a¬†big¬†business¬†because¬†
 
 
you have blue eyes or whatever. Yeah. Um, 
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
this¬†this¬†book,¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†Marcus¬†Sheridan¬†is¬†I¬†think¬†the¬†author,¬†I¬†can¬†send¬†you¬†the¬†link.¬†But¬†his¬†approach¬†
to¬†the¬†cost¬†question,¬†which¬†is¬†all¬†the¬†time¬†people¬†don’t¬†want¬†to¬†put,¬†especially¬†when¬†it’s¬†a¬†bespoke¬†
service,¬†if¬†it’s¬†like¬†a¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
glove¬†to¬†put¬†it,¬†I¬†just¬†don’t¬†know¬†what¬†it¬†is.¬†I¬†mean,¬†okay,¬†I¬†would¬†love¬†both¬†packages,¬†at¬†least¬†to¬†tell¬†
peers, when you choose this package, you can choose that one. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
So¬†he¬†his,¬†his¬†approach¬†to¬†this¬†is¬†just¬†genius.¬†Because¬†that’s¬†a¬†real,¬†that’s¬†a¬†reality.¬†And¬†I’m¬†in¬†very¬†much¬†
the same position. I mean, I have braces on my website, but only some things kind of have his 
packages.¬†But¬†what¬†he¬†says¬†is¬†that¬†what¬†people¬†want¬†isn’t¬†necessarily¬†their¬†price,¬†like¬†an¬†instant¬†quote,¬†
that’s¬†like¬†set¬†in¬†stone,¬†they¬†just¬†want¬†to¬†know¬†about¬†cost,¬†they¬†want¬†to¬†know¬†about¬†pricing.¬†So¬†if¬†you¬†can¬†
be really honest about like, these are the types of things that make it more expensive. These are the 
types of things that can you can save money on, like, this is an example of what this one cost, like, you 
can¬†kind¬†of¬†you¬†can¬†see¬†how¬†that¬†would¬†fit¬†into¬†your¬†situation.¬†So¬†by¬†saying¬†I’m¬†not¬†going¬†to¬†put¬†prices¬†
on¬†my¬†website¬†shuts¬†everything¬†down.¬†But¬†if¬†you¬†say¬†I¬†am¬†going¬†to¬†answer¬†questions¬†about¬†cost,¬†I’m¬†
going¬†to¬†do¬†it¬†in¬†a¬†blog¬†post.¬†And¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†say¬†this¬†type¬†of¬†furnace¬†costs¬†more¬†because¬†of¬†xy¬†and¬†z¬†
tends to be 20% more and last three years longer. And this one over here is cheaper. But it does only 
have a five year shelf life. You know, those are the types of things where you can talk about prices. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
This is what makes you look like not look, you are the expert, but absolutely This is what cements your 
position as the experts in your industry, even though you may think and you will rank Yeah, but you may 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
think¬†it’s¬†boring¬†as¬†an¬†air¬†conditioner,¬†which¬†is¬†totally¬†what¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†be¬†ranking¬†like¬†100%.¬†If¬†you¬†
could¬†rank¬†for¬†that¬†you’d¬†make¬†so¬†much¬†money.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah, I mean, this is the thing like small business owners sometimes think that people are not 
interested in what they have to say that is not salesy, but actually people are more interested in the not 
salesy content that you have not in the salesy, and the punch line and whatever, like the old marketing 
style,¬†you¬†know,¬†or¬†I¬†mean,¬†I,¬†some¬†of¬†the¬†stuff¬†that¬†I¬†studied¬†in,¬†in¬†digital¬†marketing,¬†I¬†don’t¬†agree¬†with,¬†
like¬†creating¬†scarcity.¬†I¬†hate¬†that,¬†oh,¬†this¬†offer¬†will¬†end¬†blah,¬†blah,¬†blah,¬†blah,¬†blah.¬†It’s¬†like,¬†it’s¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
always 10 minutes from now. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah.¬†You¬†go¬†a¬†year¬†from¬†now,¬†but¬†it’s¬†still¬†10¬†minutes¬†is¬†ending.¬†It’s¬†totally¬†I¬†have¬†this¬†plugin,¬†by¬†the¬†
way,¬†but¬†I¬†don’t¬†use¬†it¬†on¬†my¬†own¬†website.¬†It’s¬†good¬†for¬†e¬†commerce.¬†Yeah,¬†it’s¬†good.¬†Sometimes¬†when¬†
 
you¬†if¬†you’re¬†selling¬†physical¬†goods.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†And¬†sometimes¬†people¬†see¬†a¬†discount¬†and¬†there’s¬†a¬†
counter.¬†It¬†actually¬†hurts¬†them¬†to¬†buy¬†but¬†I¬†wouldn’t¬†use¬†it.¬†You¬†know,¬†as¬†a¬†blanket¬†for¬†everything.¬†Like¬†I¬†
don’t¬†really¬†believe¬†in¬†a¬†service¬†business.¬†I¬†don’t¬†believe¬†in¬†Scorsese,¬†the¬†best¬†way¬†to¬†go¬†about¬†it.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Well, I think you need to be I mean, honesty and transparency is just so important. Yeah. So if people 
start¬†just¬†not¬†trusting¬†you¬†because¬†you¬†seem¬†to¬†be¬†lying¬†all¬†the¬†time,¬†and¬†they’re¬†not¬†gonna¬†hire¬†you.¬†But¬†
if¬†you¬†on¬†the¬†flip¬†side,¬†if¬†there¬†is¬†genuine¬†scarcity,¬†it¬†isn’t¬†very¬†effective.¬†Yeah.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
I mean, okay. I do understand if if you have an offer, yeah, like a real offer a Black Friday, right, totally 
Black¬†Friday,¬†so¬†you¬†may¬†have¬†it¬†for¬†a¬†week¬†or¬†a¬†month¬†and¬†that’s¬†it.¬†It’s¬†not¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†a¬†Black¬†Friday,¬†
all¬†year¬†round.¬†So¬†that’s¬†fine.¬†But¬†you¬†know,¬†what¬†I¬†disagree¬†with¬†is¬†to¬†try¬†and¬†make¬†everything¬†you¬†
have. Oh, yeah. Seem like, you know, constantly never coming back. Yeah. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah, just stop your stuff. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So¬†people¬†are¬†still¬†listening¬†to¬†us¬†and¬†we¬†didn’t¬†lose¬†them.¬†Because¬†you¬†know,¬†guys,¬†we’re¬†not¬†
digressing.¬†It’s¬†all¬†related¬†to¬†your¬†search¬†engine¬†ranking.¬†Because¬†it’s¬†related¬†to¬†your¬†genuine¬†content,¬†
positioning yourself as the expert in your domain, which is not a lie, you are an expert in your domain, 
otherwise,¬†you¬†wouldn’t¬†be¬†doing¬†what¬†you’re¬†doing¬†right¬†now.¬†So¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
it’s¬†very¬†true.¬†And¬†Google¬†says¬†it¬†like¬†really,¬†expert¬†means¬†that¬†they¬†have¬†when¬†they’re¬†when¬†they’re¬†
evaluating¬†websites¬†and¬†trying¬†to¬†figure¬†out¬†who¬†to¬†rank.¬†I¬†mean,¬†this¬†is¬†a¬†I¬†mean,¬†obviously,¬†it’s¬†done¬†by¬†
an¬†algorithm.¬†But¬†when¬†they’re¬†checking¬†to¬†see¬†how¬†their¬†rankings¬†are¬†doing,¬†they¬†really¬†are¬†does¬†this¬†
person¬†have¬†the¬†kind¬†of¬†training¬†and¬†background¬†in¬†this¬†thing¬†that¬†they’re¬†talking¬†about¬†doesn’t¬†mean¬†
you need to be like a genius in all things, it just means you need to be have the background in that 
thing¬†that¬†you’re¬†writing¬†about.¬†And¬†very¬†few¬†people¬†would¬†be¬†writing¬†about¬†things¬†that¬†they¬†don’t¬†
actually care about, or know about, right? Yeah, like, if you have your own website, and you have your 
own business, like you really are an expert. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So just you say answer questions, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
answer¬†questions.¬†And¬†like,¬†you¬†can’t¬†go¬†wrong.¬†If¬†you¬†title¬†it¬†the¬†title¬†with¬†like,¬†a¬†how¬†to¬†or¬†a¬†question¬†for¬†
a¬†blog¬†post¬†that¬†you’re¬†reading.¬†Like,¬†that’s¬†honestly¬†normally¬†the¬†best.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
There’s¬†one¬†thing¬†that¬†I’ve¬†seen¬†from¬†your¬†interview¬†with¬†Josh,¬†that¬†I¬†liked¬†a¬†lot,¬†and¬†I¬†started¬†doing¬†it.¬†So¬†
 
easy.¬†It’s¬†like,¬†for¬†example,¬†okay,¬†I’ll¬†give¬†you¬†a¬†ticket¬†example.¬†Because¬†Sure,¬†sure.¬†Do¬†I¬†use¬†
CloudFlare?¬†Or¬†do¬†I¬†need¬†CloudFlare?¬†That’s¬†a¬†question¬†that¬†people¬†ask.¬†Yes.¬†Why¬†do¬†I¬†need¬†
CloudFlare? actually 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
need to know the answer to that. So tell me. Your What is your technique? 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
I’ll¬†send¬†you¬†the¬†blog¬†post.¬†No,¬†perfect.¬†No,¬†so¬†yeah,¬†so¬†what¬†I¬†did,¬†I¬†created¬†the¬†post.¬†Uh¬†huh.¬†There¬†
was a story behind it. I had a client, for whom have used CloudFlare. Right. And I use CloudFlare for 
most¬†clients¬†anyway,¬†because¬†I¬†believe¬†that¬†it’s¬†good¬†for¬†you.¬†But¬†I¬†didn’t¬†tell¬†her.¬†Then¬†she¬†hired¬†
somebody else, long after our service together, ended. And that was my mistake. So here are my 
apologies¬†to¬†you¬†in¬†public,¬†you¬†know¬†who¬†you¬†are.¬†And¬†because¬†she’s¬†not¬†a¬†techie,¬†and¬†she¬†didn’t¬†know¬†
what¬†CloudFlare¬†is,¬†and¬†then¬†she¬†hired¬†some¬†SEO¬†company.¬†I¬†don’t¬†know¬†why¬†I¬†don’t¬†even¬†know¬†what¬†
an SEO company does. But anyway, hmm. And they got some changes done. And they wanted to 
change¬†the¬†domain.¬†And¬†it¬†broke¬†her¬†email.¬†Because¬†they¬†didn’t¬†know¬†that¬†CloudFlare¬†was¬†handling¬†the¬†
DNS¬†service.¬†Oh,¬†I¬†see.¬†So¬†the¬†cheese¬†on¬†GoDaddy,¬†and¬†then¬†they¬†change¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†Where,¬†where,¬†
where, where the result was, because nobody spoke to me, and nobody emailed me or call me or 
whatever, I would have done it for them without all this, you know, but I realized then that for the 
average¬†business¬†owner,¬†they¬†don’t¬†understand¬†what¬†DNS¬†is.¬†And¬†they¬†don’t¬†understand¬†what¬†
CloudFlare¬†is.¬†And¬†also¬†for¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†web¬†designers.¬†They¬†see¬†CloudFlare,¬†but¬†they’re¬†not¬†sure.¬†Should¬†I¬†
use it? Should I not use it? So I created the blog post to explain this. It was because of the bad 
situation, 
 
 
that you turn it around. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah,¬†that¬†cost¬†me¬†like¬†kind¬†of,¬†I¬†think¬†that¬†it’s¬†not¬†that¬†she¬†doesn’t¬†trust¬†me¬†anymore.¬†But¬†she¬†felt¬†that¬†
something¬†was¬†kept¬†from¬†her.¬†And¬†it¬†wasn’t¬†intentional.¬†It¬†was¬†because¬†the¬†regular¬†average¬†business¬†
person¬†doesn’t¬†know¬†how¬†to¬†manage¬†their¬†DNS.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†So¬†it¬†was¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
a hard thing to explain. Exactly. And 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
even¬†when¬†I¬†did¬†it,¬†it¬†wasn’t¬†received,¬†like¬†I¬†understand¬†it’s¬†very¬†technical,¬†like¬†the¬†best.¬†The¬†best¬†
approach would have been for the techies, whoever is there, like the SEO company, to get in touch with 
me¬†and¬†like,¬†there’s¬†no¬†charge,¬†just¬†like,¬†tell¬†me¬†why¬†you’re¬†trying¬†to¬†do¬†and¬†I¬†tell¬†you,¬†what’s¬†the¬†best¬†
way to get it done? They if you hire four or five people to do the same service, you get into a conflict. 
 
 
Yeah,¬†that’s¬†very¬†true.¬†
 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So¬†in¬†order¬†for¬†me¬†to¬†help¬†others¬†be¬†their¬†business¬†owners,¬†or¬†they’re¬†web¬†designers,¬†I¬†created¬†that¬†blog¬†
post.¬†Yeah,¬†you¬†know,¬†do¬†you¬†do¬†you¬†need¬†Clark’s¬†layer?¬†So¬†so¬†it’s¬†just,¬†I¬†can’t¬†remember¬†the¬†exact¬†
question. Do I need CloudFlare? Or do you need cloth 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
does¬†the¬†title¬†it’s¬†probably¬†Google¬†wouldn’t¬†make¬†a¬†huge¬†difference.¬†Yeah,¬†you’re¬†putting¬†one¬†or¬†the¬†
other.¬†Like¬†the¬†Way¬†keywords¬†work¬†is¬†they¬†tend¬†to¬†work¬†in¬†groups.¬†So¬†it’s¬†like¬†you¬†are¬†Yeah,¬†someone¬†
needs laughter I need CloudFlare like, does the body need Probably if you look so if the way to check is 
if¬†you¬†were¬†to¬†search¬†all¬†of¬†those¬†things¬†in¬†Google¬†just¬†do¬†like¬†an¬†incognito¬†window¬†so¬†that¬†you¬†don’t¬†
have your sir. 
 
 
Yeah, caching stuff. Yeah. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
But¬†if¬†if¬†you’re¬†basically¬†getting¬†the¬†same¬†10¬†results¬†for¬†all¬†of¬†those¬†different¬†things,¬†then¬†Google¬†has¬†
decided that those search things are analogous or related, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
you¬†have¬†to¬†make,¬†you¬†know,¬†there’s¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
really no difference, regardless of how you type it in. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
And¬†what¬†I’ve¬†done¬†is¬†the¬†first¬†word¬†in¬†there¬†is¬†yes,¬†so¬†like,¬†there’s¬†a¬†question¬†up¬†in¬†the¬†title.¬†Yes.¬†And¬†
like,¬†the¬†first¬†word¬†in¬†the¬†actual¬†article¬†is,¬†Yes,¬†you¬†do.¬†Here’s¬†why.¬†And¬†then¬†I¬†explain¬†what¬†it¬†does.¬†And¬†
why¬†do¬†I¬†believe¬†it’s¬†good¬†and,¬†and¬†basically,¬†since¬†you¬†asked,¬†and¬†two¬†things¬†I¬†like¬†about¬†CloudFlare,¬†
but¬†one¬†of¬†them¬†is¬†better¬†than¬†the¬†other.¬†Okay,¬†um,¬†the¬†one¬†that’s¬†better¬†is¬†that¬†it¬†adds¬†another¬†layer¬†of¬†
security. And usually, if somebody wants to attack your website, mm over the need to figure out is the 
IP address, where your website is hosted, then they can start or mountain attack against that IP 
address.¬†And¬†usually¬†most¬†of¬†these¬†denial¬†of¬†service¬†attacks,¬†or,¬†as¬†they’re¬†called,¬†technically¬†DDoS,¬†
 
 
Mm hmm. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Is that just bombarding the server with what looks like legitimate requests? You know, a server keeps 
on answering, hey, give me this page, they give me that page, hey, give me this image, give me this, 
give me this script. And the server just gets 1 million requests a minute, to the point that it just dies, 
trying to answer all of them at the same time. 
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Make sense. And this 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
way, your website is taken off service, because of service, use CloudFlare, the IP address, if somebody 
is trying to figure out and target you specifically, or somebody on a specific hosting server, that just get 
to¬†the¬†IP¬†address¬†of¬†CloudFlare,¬†not¬†your¬†actual¬†IP,¬†they¬†wouldn’t¬†know¬†what¬†your¬†actual¬†IP¬†is,¬†because¬†
CloudFlare is in between? Yeah. And CloudFlare has designed its own servers in a way to deal with 
denial¬†of¬†service¬†attacks.¬†So¬†it¬†wouldn’t¬†bring¬†them¬†down¬†and¬†bring¬†your¬†website¬†down.¬†Because¬†you’re¬†
shielded,¬†you’re,¬†you’re¬†on¬†a¬†completely¬†different¬†IP¬†that¬†nobody¬†knows¬†about.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah,¬†that’s¬†interesting.¬†I¬†never¬†knew¬†that¬†about¬†CloudFlare.¬†I¬†always¬†just¬†knew¬†it¬†as¬†a¬†way¬†to¬†speed¬†up¬†
your website. Yeah. So 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
it’s¬†an¬†additional¬†layer¬†of¬†security.¬†And¬†it¬†does¬†work.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
That’s¬†interesting.¬†It¬†kind¬†of¬†makes¬†sense.¬†Because¬†I¬†think¬†I’ve¬†seen¬†things¬†where¬†like,¬†you¬†can’t¬†go¬†to¬†
this site, because CloudFlare has it locked down? 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yes.¬†And¬†sometimes¬†it¬†will¬†ask¬†you¬†to¬†prove¬†that¬†you’re¬†a¬†human¬†like¬†a¬†CAPTCHA,¬†or,¬†or¬†it¬†will¬†tell¬†you¬†to¬†
wait for a second or a minute. Yes, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I’ve¬†seen¬†that.¬†That’s¬†the¬†one¬†that’s¬†interesting.¬†So¬†that’s¬†there.¬†Those¬†are¬†their¬†systems.¬†That’s¬†so¬†
interesting. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
So¬†does¬†the¬†best,¬†the¬†best¬†part¬†of¬†it,¬†and¬†I’m¬†talking¬†about¬†the¬†free¬†CloudFlare,¬†because¬†there’s¬†a¬†paid¬†
version¬†that¬†does¬†way¬†more¬†than¬†that.¬†Okay,¬†speeding¬†up¬†your¬†website.¬†It’s¬†a¬†myth,¬†but¬†really¬†
CloudFlare has extra caching. So they can they can cache your website a little bit more. They can 
minify¬†your¬†JavaScript¬†and¬†your¬†CSS.¬†And¬†I’m¬†getting¬†all¬†techie¬†here.¬†But¬†we¬†have¬†many¬†listeners¬†or¬†
web¬†designers,¬†so¬†they¬†will¬†appreciate¬†this.¬†So¬†it¬†does¬†do¬†this¬†for¬†you.¬†But¬†you¬†wouldn’t¬†see¬†the¬†
difference¬†that¬†it¬†makes.¬†It’s¬†a¬†split¬†of¬†a¬†second.¬†So¬†you¬†wouldn’t¬†necessarily¬†feel¬†that¬†your¬†website¬†
loading time has been caught by a full second or something as a result of being on CloudFlare. I think 
the free clock. the paid version is another thing, the plus version has proper speeding, would you say, 
you know, and they would even work with your hosting server in tandem, to get things done really fast. 
So¬†they¬†would¬†actually¬†make¬†your¬†web¬†hosting¬†server¬†feel¬†better.¬†Oh,¬†interesting.¬†But¬†that’s¬†the¬†paid¬†
version, because they have like lots of different configurable switches that you can switch on and off. 
 
And, and they will make your website they will actually make your website faster. Very cool in a way 
that¬†you’ll¬†feel¬†it.¬†But¬†that’s¬†the¬†thing.¬†So¬†I¬†want¬†it¬†to¬†be¬†of¬†service¬†to¬†anyone¬†who’s¬†thinking¬†about¬†
CloudFlare¬†Yes.¬†And¬†whether¬†they’re¬†web¬†designers¬†or¬†small¬†business¬†owners¬†or¬†end¬†users.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†
gorod cause like, I remember when my client was angry, and she called me angrily said, What the hell 
is CloudFlare and why do I need it? So that gives me the idea that 
 
 
the internet 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
may mean happy questions, but I guess you could do it the other way around. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah,¬†well,¬†I¬†come¬†from¬†an¬†IT¬†background¬†and¬†like¬†being¬†in¬†IT¬†support.¬†Nobody¬†calls¬†you¬†unless¬†they’re¬†
angry.¬†It’s¬†true¬†that¬†he¬†was¬†gonna¬†call¬†it¬†hell¬†best¬†to¬†say¬†Hey,¬†thank¬†you¬†guys.¬†my¬†computer’s¬†is¬†running¬†
really well. 
 
 
Like nothing to report. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Just¬†wanted¬†to¬†let¬†you¬†know¬†you’re¬†appreciated.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah,¬†that’s¬†very¬†interesting.¬†Yeah,¬†that’s¬†By¬†the¬†way,¬†I¬†mean,¬†that’s¬†I¬†mean,¬†that’s¬†content¬†marketing,¬†
just writing the answers to the questions that you know, because think about it, your your audience 
sometimes is searching, can I make a website or I need to fix my website, but they also are spending 
time on the internet doing other things relatedly in their life, so maybe not directly related to something 
that¬†you¬†have¬†a¬†service¬†around.¬†But¬†it’s¬†still¬†that¬†same¬†person.¬†And¬†it’s¬†still¬†that¬†same¬†audience.¬†And¬†
that’s¬†who¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†sort¬†of¬†trust¬†you¬†over¬†time.¬†And¬†so¬†if¬†you¬†can¬†think¬†about¬†the¬†other¬†things¬†that¬†
audience¬†is¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†writing¬†about¬†that’s¬†related¬†enough¬†that¬†you¬†have¬†expertise¬†in¬†that¬†area,¬†but¬†not¬†
necessarily like every single blog post leads towards a sale. Yeah, that is quite valuable. Because that 
is, I think, Josh is probably a fantastic example of that, right? before I ever knew Josh, like I was just 
working¬†on¬†Debbie¬†sites¬†and¬†PK¬†every¬†time¬†I¬†had¬†a¬†question.¬†And¬†you’re¬†done.¬†Yeah,¬†after¬†a¬†while,¬†you¬†
start to just really trust the guy because you, you recognize that last time you solved your problem. And 
now¬†this¬†time,¬†you’re¬†like,¬†well,¬†if¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†click¬†on¬†one¬†of¬†them,¬†like,¬†I¬†know¬†that¬†this¬†guy¬†does¬†videos¬†
that make sense to me. And so then you do that. So like, if, if you can do that type of content marketing, 
where¬†you’re,¬†you’re¬†kind¬†of¬†in¬†the¬†area¬†of¬†the¬†types¬†of¬†people¬†that¬†you¬†would¬†maybe¬†want¬†to¬†work¬†with¬†
one¬†day,¬†then¬†over¬†time,¬†they’ll¬†just¬†get¬†to¬†know¬†you.¬†And¬†then¬†that’s¬†just¬†like¬†a¬†beautiful¬†thing.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Shoutout¬†to¬†Russia.¬†Good.¬†Yeah,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I,¬†I¬†love¬†how¬†he’s¬†doing¬†it,¬†because¬†I¬†think¬†it¬†all¬†came¬†naturally.¬†
And¬†genuinely,¬†it¬†I¬†think¬†it’s¬†part¬†of¬†it¬†is¬†his¬†friendly¬†personality.¬†Just¬†Josh¬†is¬†very¬†friendly.¬†And¬†he¬†
 
genuinely¬†wants¬†to¬†help¬†people.¬†And¬†every¬†time¬†and¬†anytime¬†you¬†have¬†a¬†conversation¬†with¬†him,¬†he’s¬†so¬†
thankful, because the more helpful he was, the more successful he became. And the more money he 
got.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†This¬†is¬†like,¬†the¬†secret¬†sauce¬†here¬†that¬†that¬†that’s¬†exactly¬†what¬†we’re¬†talking¬†about.¬†yet.¬†If¬†
your¬†goal¬†is¬†to¬†go¬†on¬†the¬†first¬†page¬†of¬†Google,¬†for¬†a¬†business¬†competitive¬†reason,¬†I’ve¬†got¬†news¬†for¬†you¬†
ain’t¬†gonna¬†happen.¬†But¬†if¬†your¬†goal¬†is¬†to¬†genuinely¬†help¬†your¬†audience,¬†get¬†better,¬†solve¬†problems,¬†do¬†
better.¬†In¬†general,¬†no¬†matter¬†what¬†you¬†sell,¬†no¬†matter¬†what¬†business¬†you’re¬†in,¬†hmm,¬†you¬†will¬†rank¬†in¬†
Google as long as you keep actively, you know, you keep being active and posting about the stuff that 
you know. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yep. And also going back to your like, not to plug editing too much. But to go back to old posts. So like, 
I¬†mean,¬†sometimes¬†you¬†end¬†up¬†with¬†just¬†this,¬†these¬†gigantic¬†websites,¬†sometimes¬†I’m¬†called¬†in¬†and¬†like,¬†
you¬†wouldn’t¬†believe¬†how¬†much¬†content¬†they¬†have.¬†And¬†like¬†some¬†of¬†it¬†isn’t¬†relevant.¬†Now,¬†it’s¬†not¬†
necessary¬†enough.¬†Like¬†most¬†of¬†the¬†time,¬†if¬†Google¬†has¬†decided¬†that¬†something¬†isn’t¬†relevant,¬†it’s¬†not¬†
probably holding you back, like leaving it live is probably not much of a problem. But if you see your 
rankings kind of slipping, like if you can see, oh, I used to rank really well for that. And then like, other 
people¬†kind¬†of¬†upped¬†their¬†game.¬†And¬†now¬†I’m¬†not¬†the¬†best¬†results¬†on¬†the¬†internet¬†anymore.¬†If¬†you¬†can¬†
go¬†back¬†and¬†refresh.¬†So¬†if¬†you’ve¬†been¬†in¬†business¬†for¬†a¬†while,¬†if¬†you¬†actually¬†do¬†have¬†lots¬†of¬†blog¬†posts,¬†
one¬†of¬†the¬†best¬†things¬†you¬†can¬†do,¬†that’s¬†a¬†lot¬†easier¬†than¬†writing¬†something¬†totally¬†fresh,¬†is¬†to¬†go¬†and¬†
update¬†to¬†go¬†in¬†and¬†like¬†see¬†what¬†how¬†you¬†could¬†even¬†make¬†it¬†better.¬†So¬†it’s¬†just¬†another¬†phase¬†of¬†
editing in like two years later. But to come in and see what other people are in that field kind of doing. 
Maybe some things are just straight out of date, and they need to be updated. I mean, in your field, 
things change, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
the terms change as well, that the actual terms that people use change, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and then the prices change, and some businesses go out of business. So like, you know, CloudFlare 
will probably be here for a while, but one day, it might not be and then you need to make sure that 
you’ve¬†updated¬†it¬†to¬†the¬†new¬†caching¬†service,¬†right.¬†Like¬†those¬†types¬†of¬†things¬†are,¬†that¬†can¬†really¬†help¬†or¬†
add¬†on¬†to¬†old¬†posts.¬†If¬†there’s¬†new¬†competitors¬†in¬†the¬†field.¬†If¬†you’re¬†writing¬†about¬†companies,¬†and¬†
there’s¬†a¬†new¬†competitor¬†that¬†you¬†want¬†to¬†write¬†about,¬†like¬†don’t¬†hesitate¬†to¬†go¬†in¬†and¬†make¬†those¬†
changes because Google does a 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
good question here. Because everybody is not just me. And I think everyone who has a WordPress 
website¬†would¬†probably¬†end¬†up¬†especially¬†if¬†you’ve¬†been¬†blogging¬†for¬†a¬†long¬†time,¬†I¬†think¬†a¬†messy¬†
archive,¬†like,¬†Oh,¬†yes,¬†like¬†the¬†old,¬†your¬†old¬†posts¬†from¬†five¬†years¬†ago¬†and¬†whatever,¬†and¬†you’re¬†in¬†the¬†
same industry, but the industry itself has moved on. There are new terms and there are new 
technologies and new ways of getting business done. Yeah. So do you advise people if they go and 
revisit¬†those¬†old¬†ports,¬†now¬†that¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†edit¬†it,¬†be¬†it¬†alone¬†or¬†using¬†an¬†editor¬†like¬†you¬†or¬†whatever,¬†
but¬†I’m¬†gonna¬†do¬†I¬†change¬†the¬†data¬†make¬†it¬†today’s¬†date,¬†or¬†leave¬†it¬†as¬†old?¬†It¬†was¬†or¬†
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
so the danger is not or as much as you would think. I mean, you could you can add like an updated 
date, right. So you can do like first published 2017, updated 2020. So that can adding that on can 
certainly¬†help¬†and¬†updating¬†the¬†metadata¬†so¬†that¬†Google¬†understands¬†that¬†it’s¬†been¬†updated.¬†The¬†most¬†
important¬†thing¬†which¬†you¬†didn’t¬†ask,¬†but¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†answer¬†is¬†do¬†not¬†change¬†the¬†URL.¬†Oh,¬†yeah.¬†
Because though 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
you’ll¬†lose¬†your¬†everything¬†pointing,¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
you’ll¬†lose?¬†Well,¬†there’s¬†that¬†even¬†if¬†you¬†did¬†all¬†the¬†proper¬†redirects,¬†you¬†would¬†still¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†but¬†
it’s¬†that¬†Google¬†really¬†understands¬†that¬†that¬†page¬†is¬†that¬†page,¬†because¬†of¬†the¬†URL.¬†It’s¬†like¬†almost¬†a¬†
unique ID, right? 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yes.¬†So¬†does¬†the¬†address¬†that’s¬†it’s¬†the¬†actually,¬†a¬†URL¬†is¬†a¬†Uniform¬†Resource¬†Locator.¬†Like,¬†I¬†know¬†
most of us use the word. Yeah. But you need to understand the score the locator for a reason. So 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
there¬†you¬†go.¬†That’s¬†a¬†very¬†good¬†way.¬†I¬†knew¬†it¬†on¬†some¬†level,¬†but¬†that¬†is¬†very,¬†that’s¬†true.¬†And¬†so¬†if¬†you¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
know, I studied all the boring internet stuff, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
haha.¬†If¬†you¬†change¬†the¬†URL,¬†then¬†Google¬†actually¬†thinks¬†it’s¬†just¬†a¬†brand¬†new¬†site¬†that’s¬†never¬†existed¬†
before.¬†So¬†when¬†you¬†do¬†refresh¬†your¬†content,¬†you¬†can¬†update¬†the¬†date,¬†that’s¬†great.¬†I¬†mean,¬†it’s¬†just¬†
good¬†for¬†your¬†users,¬†right¬†to¬†know¬†that,¬†they¬†want¬†to¬†know¬†that¬†it’s¬†new,¬†not¬†old.¬†So¬†you¬†get¬†it¬†as¬†totally¬†
new¬†and¬†keep¬†the¬†same¬†URL,¬†especially¬†if¬†it’s¬†really¬†substantially¬†different,¬†like¬†it¬†really¬†is¬†new¬†posts¬†on¬†
the¬†same¬†topic,¬†then¬†you¬†might¬†want¬†to¬†just¬†make¬†a¬†new¬†post,¬†I¬†mean,¬†that’s¬†probably¬†what¬†I¬†would¬†do¬†is¬†
that if it was a small edit, if I was just making smaller changes, adding a paragraph changing a couple 
things¬†that¬†bugged¬†me¬†about¬†the¬†old¬†version,¬†then¬†that’s¬†called¬†updating.¬†So¬†you¬†could¬†say¬†updated¬†
2020,¬†or¬†updated¬†specific¬†date¬†in¬†2020.¬†But¬†if¬†it’s¬†a¬†substantially¬†new¬†thing¬†on¬†a¬†topic¬†that¬†you’ve¬†written¬†
by in the past, reuse that URL, and then you take all any any sort of authority, or any sort of links that 
you had to it, that now goes to the new one, now, you can get people linking to your new one, and you 
get¬†to¬†kind¬†of¬†put¬†all¬†those¬†links¬†together.¬†So¬†that’s¬†kind¬†of¬†useful.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Cool. I have one last question before I let you go. Um, when we talk about answering questions, and 
most of us do it on our own websites, which is a great thing to do. Would you also recommend that 
people go and answer some questions on some of the sites that have questions like Cora or 
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
so¬†there’s,¬†there’s¬†like¬†a,¬†that’s¬†a¬†very¬†good¬†question.¬†There’s¬†a¬†couple¬†things¬†about¬†that.¬†So¬†in¬†most¬†
cases,¬†like¬†Cora,¬†and¬†those¬†types¬†of¬†things¬†aren’t¬†necessarily¬†going¬†to¬†be¬†like¬†the¬†types¬†of¬†so¬†say¬†you¬†
write an answer to a question. Yeah. And then you link back to your website? I think most of those are 
nofollow¬†links.¬†So¬†they’re¬†not,¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
they¬†don’t¬†give¬†you¬†the¬†juice.¬†Yeah.¬†No,¬†this¬†is¬†on¬†your¬†thority.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
However, your audience is there, right. So like, if your audience is looking for an answer to a question 
that you have answered on your own website, in a blog post, for example, you can give like an expert 
type opinion, and then a link for like more information, you can check out my blog post that can be very, 
I mean, that can just drive traffic. So while it may not necessarily specifically help with your off page, 
SEO,¬†that¬†could¬†be¬†very¬†useful.¬†Then¬†the¬†flip¬†side¬†is,¬†if¬†you’re¬†looking¬†to¬†try¬†to¬†figure¬†out¬†what¬†questions¬†
people are asking, in your field, go to Quora. People are asking questions, and go find things that 
you’re¬†an¬†expert¬†on¬†to¬†answer¬†and¬†then¬†you’ll¬†see¬†good¬†returns¬†that¬†way.¬†So¬†good,¬†those¬†those,¬†those¬†
bulletin boards and those types of things, Reddit and those types of things are great places to figure out 
what your audience is even interested in. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Here we go off page SEO in a nutshell. You can do it on Facebook, as well, you can do it like wherever 
you think your audience exists. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
I always like to think with Facebook groups, like if somebody googled it, you know that there is right, if 
somebody’s¬†asking¬†it¬†in¬†a¬†Facebook¬†group.¬†
 
 
And¬†they¬†didn’t¬†find¬†the¬†answer.¬†They¬†didn’t¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
find¬†the¬†answer.¬†So¬†probably¬†it’s¬†a¬†good¬†thing¬†to¬†write¬†on.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah,¬†I¬†mean,¬†I,¬†he¬†just¬†sucks¬†out¬†a¬†lot¬†of¬†time.¬†So¬†just¬†be¬†careful¬†that¬†he¬†has¬†a¬†specific,¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†a¬†
few¬†hours¬†a¬†week¬†to¬†work¬†on¬†this.¬†You¬†got¬†to¬†do¬†it¬†constantly.¬†That’s¬†the¬†clue.¬†You¬†have¬†to¬†be¬†constant.¬†
Don’t¬†overdo¬†it.¬†Yeah,¬†burnout,¬†and¬†then¬†stop¬†doing.¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
You¬†don’t¬†need¬†to¬†like¬†to¬†wrap¬†the¬†whole¬†internet¬†and¬†all¬†those¬†questions,¬†but¬†just¬†use¬†it¬†as¬†a¬†way¬†to¬†get¬†
ideas.¬†So¬†if¬†you’re¬†running¬†dry,¬†of¬†things¬†to¬†think¬†about¬†and¬†things¬†to¬†write¬†about¬†going¬†out¬†and¬†finding¬†
 
some outside inspiration is always a good way to start. And then you have something like I would say 
the¬†beginning¬†of¬†something¬†to¬†sit¬†in¬†front¬†of¬†when¬†you’re¬†like¬†I’m¬†just¬†going¬†to¬†write¬†and¬†I’m¬†going¬†to¬†free¬†
write¬†and¬†even¬†if¬†it’s¬†terrible¬†writing¬†and¬†write¬†it¬†anyways,¬†if¬†at¬†the¬†top¬†of¬†the¬†page,¬†you¬†have¬†a¬†real¬†
question from a real person that can sometimes make it much easier for the words to come. Yeah, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Gods you were to go with your thoughts. Yeah. And like instead of thinking about Oh, did I put the 
washing in the dryer or like 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
and also you can have that that imagined audience Yeah. And that helps a lot with the tone. So instead 
of¬†being¬†really¬†like¬†stilted¬†and¬†academic¬†or¬†like,¬†just¬†you¬†don’t¬†really¬†know¬†who¬†you’re¬†writing¬†to,¬†or¬†
you’re¬†kind¬†of¬†writing¬†to¬†the¬†whole¬†internet¬†all¬†at¬†once.¬†It’s¬†better¬†to¬†write¬†to¬†one¬†person.¬†And¬†so¬†if¬†you¬†
have¬†one¬†person’s¬†question¬†in¬†front¬†of¬†you,¬†it’s¬†a¬†lot¬†easier¬†to¬†get¬†into¬†that¬†mode¬†of¬†answering¬†that¬†
person’s¬†question.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
And¬†I¬†think¬†some¬†people¬†have¬†sometimes¬†more¬†than¬†one¬†audience,¬†which¬†is¬†okay,¬†as¬†long¬†as¬†you¬†don’t¬†
speak to both audiences in the same sentence. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yeah, you got muddled and right. You can write the same often. I mean, if you look at keywords, yes. 
Right.¬†It’s¬†like¬†XYZ¬†for¬†women,¬†XYZ¬†for¬†men,¬†XYZ¬†for¬†kids.¬†So¬†if¬†you¬†were¬†selling¬†something¬†to¬†women¬†
and men and kids, you could hit those keywords separately, or you could hit them in different sections 
within¬†a¬†bigger¬†blog¬†post.¬†Either¬†way,¬†you’re¬†being¬†specific¬†to¬†the¬†audience.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Yeah.¬†Or¬†maybe¬†have¬†I¬†don’t¬†know,¬†I¬†wouldn’t¬†say¬†two¬†separate¬†blog¬†posts.¬†It¬†depends¬†on¬†the¬†situation¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
depends on the exercise, like, 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
yeah, recruitment agencies, for example, they have the customer is the employer, the company looking 
for someone to work for them? And their other customer or the client is the candidate? Oh, yeah. Yeah, 
if¬†you’re,¬†if¬†you’re¬†a¬†dating¬†agency,¬†you’ve¬†got¬†to¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
are in real estate is the other one. Oh, real 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
estate buyers and sellers. Yeah. But so if you have two groups, you can keep them separate. Even on 
your¬†like,¬†some¬†people¬†want¬†to¬†design¬†the¬†website,¬†they¬†have¬†two¬†entries.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†It’s¬†like¬†almost¬†
 
having two separate websites, one for sellers and one for buyers. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
And¬†people¬†to¬†feel¬†at¬†home¬†when¬†they¬†get¬†there.¬†Right.¬†That’s¬†them.¬†And¬†nothing¬†that¬†they¬†don’t¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
mistake¬†is¬†having¬†a¬†homepage¬†that’s¬†trying¬†to¬†cater¬†for¬†both.¬†Yeah,¬†and¬†it¬†becomes¬†too¬†hard.¬†And¬†I’m¬†
kind of there as well, because when I started my web design and development business, my target, as 
usual, is small business owners, entrepreneurs like me. But as everything evolved, the last year, most 
of¬†my¬†clients¬†are¬†web¬†designers.¬†And¬†I¬†love¬†working¬†with¬†web¬†designers.¬†Because¬†we’re¬†from¬†the¬†same¬†
industry,¬†it’s¬†easier¬†for¬†us¬†to¬†connect.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†It’s¬†easier¬†for¬†me¬†to¬†be¬†the¬†techie¬†without¬†having¬†to¬†
explain¬†how¬†it’s¬†done,¬†like,¬†
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
thankful that you can do it. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
They¬†don’t¬†have¬†to¬†just¬†let¬†me¬†take¬†care¬†of¬†it.¬†Yeah,¬†headache.¬†I’ll¬†take¬†care¬†of¬†it.¬†No¬†more¬†headache.¬†
Just¬†don’t¬†ask¬†me¬†to¬†show¬†you¬†how¬†it’s¬†done.¬†I’m¬†actually,¬†I’ll¬†make¬†a¬†course¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†if¬†genuinely¬†
many¬†people¬†need¬†to¬†know¬†how¬†it’s¬†done.¬†And¬†that’s¬†the¬†idea¬†for¬†my¬†course.¬†I¬†have¬†some¬†free¬†tutorials.¬†
And¬†it’s,¬†it’s¬†okay.¬†Every¬†time¬†I¬†talk,¬†I¬†get¬†a¬†question¬†from¬†Michelle.¬†But¬†we¬†don’t¬†want¬†this¬†episode¬†to¬†be¬†
mega¬†long,¬†as¬†well.¬†But¬†if¬†you¬†have¬†some¬†free¬†content,¬†like¬†Josh¬†is¬†doing¬†it¬†as¬†well,¬†like,¬†you’ve¬†got¬†so¬†
many¬†tutorials,¬†and¬†you’re¬†thinking¬†to¬†have¬†a¬†paid¬†course.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†One¬†of¬†the¬†things¬†that¬†is¬†stopping¬†
me¬†and¬†not¬†stopping¬†me,¬†but¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†I¬†procrastinate,¬†and¬†I¬†get¬†busy.¬†Sometimes¬†I¬†feel¬†like¬†I’ve¬†
already covered everything in the free tutorial, when people actually pay for a course since like most of 
the¬†information¬†is¬†even¬†how¬†I¬†explained¬†it¬†is¬†they’re¬†readily¬†available.¬†Mm¬†hmm.¬†So¬†from¬†a¬†content¬†
perspective, 
 
 
Mm hmm. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
What should somebody do in this instance? 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
A¬†good¬†question.¬†There’s¬†two¬†things,¬†one,¬†and¬†I’m¬†just¬†taking¬†this¬†from¬†Josh.¬†But¬†he¬†said¬†that¬†one¬†of¬†the¬†
things that he does in his courses is that he puts it in an order. And he, yes, some of that stuff is 
available for free, but you really got to go look for it. And by having it like as a guide that you bring, like 
there¬†is,¬†there¬†is¬†value¬†in¬†the¬†ordering.¬†And¬†there’s¬†value¬†in¬†the¬†sort¬†of¬†like¬†bringing¬†somebody¬†through¬†it¬†
in¬†an¬†organized¬†way.¬†So¬†that¬†that’s¬†one¬†piece.¬†And¬†then¬†the¬†other¬†piece,¬†you¬†probably¬†don’t¬†want¬†to¬†hear¬†
this.¬†But¬†the¬†other¬†piece¬†is¬†that¬†like,¬†if¬†you’ve¬†given¬†away¬†really¬†great¬†free¬†content,¬†hi,¬†feel¬†that¬†like¬†that’s¬†
just a call for you to like really jump in and see what you can bring to the table that is unique and is not 
replicable¬†and¬†isn’t¬†already¬†on¬†the¬†internet¬†somewhere.¬†And¬†so¬†like,¬†given¬†that¬†you’re¬†the¬†expert¬†in¬†these¬†
 
things, I think 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
it gives us not replicable. 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Well,¬†but¬†it’s¬†the¬†thing¬†where¬†you¬†can¬†go¬†in¬†and¬†say¬†the¬†things¬†that¬†you¬†didn’t¬†have¬†time¬†to¬†say,¬†or¬†
explain¬†things¬†in¬†ways¬†that¬†you’re¬†kind¬†of¬†not¬†willing¬†to¬†give¬†away¬†for¬†free,¬†right?¬†Like¬†I¬†mean,¬†even¬†
though¬†you’ve¬†given¬†many¬†things¬†away¬†for¬†free,¬†and¬†so¬†have¬†I¬†there¬†are¬†certain¬†things¬†that¬†like¬†you¬†
know, you this is your special knowledge, the things that you are hard won, like specialist knowledge 
that maybe you are willing to give away because I do think that you want to make sure that you want to 
make¬†sure¬†that¬†anyone¬†that¬†buys¬†a¬†course¬†is¬†coming¬†away¬†thinking¬†wow.¬†So¬†you¬†don’t¬†want¬†them.¬†
Whoa. You just sold me something you gave for free, you want people looking at your free content and 
saying,¬†Wow,¬†if¬†this¬†the¬†stuff¬†he¬†gives¬†away¬†for¬†free,¬†I¬†wonder¬†what’s¬†in¬†the¬†paid¬†course.¬†Like¬†if¬†that’s¬†
 
 
Yeah, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
like¬†if¬†that’s¬†the¬†mode¬†that¬†you¬†can¬†get¬†your¬†money,¬†you’ll¬†sell¬†tons¬†of¬†things.¬†And¬†so¬†I¬†think¬†that¬†that’s¬†
why¬†it’s¬†good¬†to¬†be¬†generous¬†in¬†your¬†content¬†in¬†your¬†free¬†content,¬†because¬†I¬†think¬†it¬†really¬†helps¬†people¬†
understand the quality that you always produce. But I am almost positive that you have more to give 
when¬†you¬†really¬†sit¬†down¬†and¬†you¬†can¬†make¬†an¬†organized¬†class.¬†That’s¬†what¬†I¬†think.¬†
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
Perfect. Thank you very much, Michelle, for being here today. 
 
 
Lovely to have you here. Thank you. Thank 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
you so much for having us. Me. And it was really nice to chat with you about all these interesting 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
things.¬†Yeah.¬†And¬†I’m¬†sure¬†like¬†people¬†will¬†enjoy¬†because¬†like,¬†you¬†know,¬†I¬†haven’t¬†seen¬†many¬†episodes¬†
somewhere else that are discussing specifically content and you know, 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
well, SEO editors like where nominee 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
and editors like Yeah, exactly. WordPress. They have a role called editor but no one is using because 
everyone wants to be the administrator. 
 
 
Michelle Bourbonnière   
Yes, indeed. Indeed. I am the editor. I own it. 
 
 
Thank you so much for having me. 
 
Amr The Internet Guy   
She’s¬†Michelle.¬†Have¬†a¬†great¬†day.¬†Thanks.

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